To think the time has come to abolish the NHS healthcare model

https://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-64216269

The much lauded French system by Farage and co seems to be having similar/ it’s own issues anyway.

That has really surprised me. It is really useful to hear from somebody with real life experience. Other healthcare systems seem to be glorified and I thought Germany was one of the top systems.

I’ve had different experience. You couldn’t have prevented my dc’s chronic condition and she’s had good care( excellent at times) that has enabled recovery. I couldn’t even begin to list the amount of ways in which the NHS and only the NHS could have facilitated this, the amount of players that weave together.

Yep. But that eligibilty at the lower end needs to be tightly controlled otherwise we end up in precisely the same situation again

We need a cross party review and stop the usual suspects on these sorts of threads blithering on about the US model (again).

Calmly look at European models rather than worshipping at the altar of the NHS. It’s broken. I would like to personally see a co payment system. It’s seems to work well in other countries.

YABU. Private insurers also have access to the same research as NHs does for new drugs and treatment. . Do you really think they won't exclude use on grounds of cost vs benefit as NICE does ? They are less likely to fork out that the NHS.

See I don’t recognise this. When I lived in the states health screenings were compulsory for most insurance policies, however most insurance policies didn’t cover them, even if it was a yearly screen for an existing policy. So lots of people had no choice but to let them lapse and accept if they were diagnosed with something that would have been picked up during a screening they wouldn’t be covered.

Until you need the NHS in a major way which can happen to anyway you don’t realise how lucky we are.

From personal experience they are good in life saving situations but chronic conditions and preventing them, nope.

It’s the waste though too, not just bad management.Not just materials but staff. Why are we paying £££££ for agency staff, training doctors who can’t get jobs after unis etc.

In terms of efficiency per £ the NHS doesn't compare badly at all.

We need more capacity in the system. People complain about managers but don't realise much of their time is spent making a system that doesn't work function: there aren't enough beds, ward 1 you need to discharge the least sick person. ward 3 has shit conditions so has no staff today, wards 1, 2 and 4 need to run short staffed to send them a nurse each. And don't forget the endless chasing of social care..

It's shit, it's shit for patients and shit to work in. We do need proper overhaul of social care, but I am starting to think that the only way staff will be treated properly is with some privatisation. A better answer would be more tax but I don't see that happening.

I think the only thing that private American systems do better is the preventative stuff, our NHS would do well to adopt some of those practices.
Annual health check ups and fitness plans/dietary plans for sure.

@R3dSho3s thanks for saying it much better than me.

My dd has just beaten an illness she has been battling for 5 years. She has multiple diagnosis. I know from reading parents from other countries on forums her care would not have been covered by insurance for so long if at all. The stress and anguish I see them go through is terrifying.Her health needs are in her EHCP and I doubt very much a private provider would hold much sway. We have had hospital stay upon hospital stay, needed A&E countless times, needed support from our GP, work from several services within the NHS liaising and she will need ongoing support.

I had an health scare recently and the tests and subsequent care has been amazing.

Until you need the NHS in a major way which can happen to anyway you don’t realise how lucky we are. The fear of funding on top of terrifying health struggles must be unbearable. Knowing you can trust the hands you’re in too, that they’re not just trying to make money out of you is huge. Yeah it’s struggling at the moment( thanks Tories and crap managers) and we have had/ have difficult waits at times but it’s bloody amazing.

I came to say this.
I think it's heartbreaking that families affected by dementia will watch the news and feel they are being denied Lecanemab as they feel it will cure dementia.
All Dementia medication has v limited effectiveness, if the NHS wants to review dementia treatment it needs to stop pumping it's money into these ineffectual medical treatments and start encouraging the much cheaper and clinically proven, cognitive stimulation therapies.

But you know, medical model and all that 🙄 people love to take a pill.

How much more would you be prepared to pay than you are currently paying?

Higher rate tax payers in the UK pay similar levels of taxes to other European countries. The difference is the average earners here aren’t taxed as much…

I much prefer the French model. The current system here isn’t sustainable with an ageing population eg free prescriptions for over 60s but nobody wants to pay.

I know someone who had emergency surgery in new york in the 60s and because he was from the UK they would not operate until they had his cheque in hand. He managed all finances so his wife could not get the cheque sorted. He literally signed it as he was getting gowned up.

The NHS needs streamlining like most government apparatus. It does not need razing to the ground. We certainly don't want an utterly inhumane American system where the cost of health care is inflated to increase profit margins and health care is denied to those unable to pay.

America is a third world country lacking basic social care, minimal employee protections and a lack of women's reproductive rights. We don't want to become more like them, we've imported quite enough of their culture already.

Yes the NHS could be better, but the idea of abandoning a long entrenched institution because you don't like NICE guidelines about one drug is reductive.

The American model is the last one to take inspiration from. Disgraceful. Whenever/wherever private insurance companies are involved, it turns into a disaster incredibly quickly.

I would agree to some contribution at the point of use, proportional to income, but going straight back to the NHS rather than to some private bloodsucker.

Yes Nigel. Of course Nigel.

It's not even the reduction in proteins, it's that there is no clinically significant difference in clinical outcomes that matter.

I completely agree and I prescribe expensive drugs regularly - my specialty is one of the top 2 for drug costs, as we use lots of biologics.

I tend to agree that some of reform is needed, but we also need to talk about the elephant in the room…

I see more and more fat and obese people around, I am specifically horrified by the number of young children I see with large bellies and clearly heading for an obese adulthood. Something needs to be done about that, no healthcare can cope with the consequences of that.

Well let’s see how this unfold now that high tax payers are leaving the country. I see your point.
We pay double for everything and the private school VAT was the cherry on top. Beggars believe people feel so entitled here. They even complain when people do not like to pay so much tax here WTF. Like if they are the ones getting shafted.
The European model is much better but even in America the insurance for the majority work out much better than the taxes paid here. Over 65’s have free healthcare access over there too. Plus people keep much more of their salaries.

Well that's not going to happen...

The NHS never routinely leaves people waiting nine months for a 15 minute telephone appointment either. In fact I’ve never heard of it happening. It needs root and branch review and investment, not a different funding model.

The NHS isn't working. Our cancer survival rates are amongst the worst in Europe. That affects every family. People are dying in the UK when they wouldn't be dying in European countries. That's appalling.

Many services are at breaking point and people are suffering. The system needs to change to provide 21st century care. I've worked in the NHS for decades and now live in mainland Europe. The differences in healthcare are stark.