To really quite dislike my teenage DS?

Urgh sounds like the holiday we had recently with my DS15.

It made all the normal teenage grump worse 10 fold. He really put a downer on everything. That being said my parents still talk about a holiday with me at 15. I had no reason for being foul other than the hormones. They think this recent holiday with DS was payback!

OP, are you me??? Mine does a little less of the huffing and puffing about helping these days, but literally just moaned his way through an entire short break in London. Also with the racism, yesterday he told me hates Americans (I replied ‘all 300 million of them? Even Mr Beast?’, but find it much harder to make a joke of it when it’s directed at minorities or recent immigrants.) He is also quite self aware though, and will tell me that he is selfish and says stupid shit because he’s a teenager (he is charmingly convinced that at 18 he will magically transform into a mature adult). With the moaning thing he was totally unaware of how bad it was, he knew that he had voiced complaints, but didn’t realise how many times he’d done it, or that other people were also experiencing the same things (being hungry and being tired) without ruining it for everyone else. So, no advice, just solidarity! It sounds like you have a good relationship, this aspect aside, fingers crossed he’ll have a brain growth spurt soon and give you a break!

What if you pointed it out to him every time? A sort of reprogramming?
That's the approach I took with my moaning ds.
"Why are you moaning that I've asked you to bring your dirty dishes down? Do you want mould and maggots in your room or do you think I should be doing everything for you? What do you think should be done here?"

"Why are you moaning about the weather? I know it's disappointing that we can't do what we wanted but let's rise to the challenge and suggest something else we could do"

"Why are you being mean about normal people going about their business? What have they actually done to you?"

I often used to tell my ds "don't let your first reaction always be negative because it's rubbish for everyone to hear it."

I'd also point out to him
"You moaned so much about going to this place and now you've enjoyed it. What was the moaning for then? Don't let your first reaction always be negative"

It's worked for ds. He's aware of it now and keeps himself in check.

Yes sounds like a teenager, have 3. If you have had a chat and are sure it's nothing more than teenager hormones etc then I would start getting strict. He can't have a phone/hobby/social life that you pay for and be this unpleasant..I would take away phone/gaming time and set out your expectations for behaviour and how much tidying/help you want around the house, whatever you want to see. Whenever there is an improvement he gets phone/gaming time back. Sometimes I think you just need to spell it out for them..they need boundaries.
Trying to find something you can do together is also good even if its just going out for a meal.

Although I wouldn’t have dared spoil a holiday I do remember as a teen being incredibly critical of everything. I was always moaning and complaining. I honestly don’t really know why. I do remember a friend telling me I was always moaning and that jolted me (I don’t think I even realised). I felt so embarrassed I became very self conscious about it and stopped.

I definitely recognise and can empathise with your situation. My ds is the same, he is not diagnosed but definitely has ASD. I see his attitude comes from a place of discomfort and heightened anxiety but painful to travel with 😔

Loving, not living!

The only concerning thing about this is the signs of potential racism. Check the history of every device he uses and deal with what you find there.
Then ignore him, tell him you don’t listen to whining. EarPods and a podcast/ music on as soon as he starts.

It is so sad that teenagers are being exposed to such grim intolerant stuff, but it sounds as though you are doing and saying all the right things.
I remember a teenage DD ruining a foreign holiday pining for her boyfriend .... she laughs about it now and says she does not know how we pit up with her!
It is perfectly OK to not like your teenager ... especially when he is doing unlikeable things. Just keep on living him .... and telling him so. This too will pass.

Sounds exactly like my 14 year old DS. We are away at the moment. And his behaviour at home sounds pretty similar- ask him to clean up after himself and it’s a major drama. No advice to give - just sympathy 😬

Not all teenagers are like this but it isn't uncommon.

I worked in education for twenty years and this type of teen was a frequent experience.

If he has had mh problems this would explain a lot.
You may find that planning around his anxieties rather than exposing him to more "enriching" experiences results in less stress.

In a personal level we travelled a lot with our kids and as adults they have told me they hated it. It may broaden the mind but they don't necessarily enjoy it.

You sound like a lovely, supportive parent and that sounds really upsetting. How weird to be exposed to lots of different cultures since a young child and to have an intolerant and unpleasant attitude like that. Interesting that he's fine at school, so he can control it.

How do you deal with his constant moaning? Have you ever pointed it out to him?

what's he looking at online? do you check?

Sounds like a teenager.

It sounds a bit like he's spouting nasty stuff from online with some ongoing aggression/anxiety that's making him oppositional (maybe the horrible attitudes are part of separating from family etc). I think it's important to voice your disagreement but can you also find opportunities to show him he's valued, useful etc, like chores or interesting discussion about non-family stuff? It can be a horrible age!

My initial advice would be to just sit and chat with him, regularly (i.e. just happen to be with him daily for a bit...chatting or just being together if he's not speaking). My DD at 14 was, and still is a one for her declaratives and is very much influenced by stuff she sees on social media, but once you get past the declarations, her actual thought out explanations are sensible and she doesn't mean any of what she said in the way she said it.

Speak to him, try to listen to what his actual thought out opinions are and in that way you can start to work out if there are some actual issues there (e.g. on incel blogs, homophobic, racist etc.). It could also be that he's trying to get a rise out of you, and that will also root out that. Make sure you don't blow your top; listen and have a reasoned, clam discussion if you can.

That sounds like a lot of anger and resentment.

If you asked how he would spend his perfect holiday, what would he say? Is he resentful that he's been taken away from his gaming pc? Is there something else he is 'addicted' to?

I recognise the xenophobia though. It irritates me too. I've resolved to ensure we travel more, city breaks etc, to broaden ds' mind because it can be pretty draining.

Yes. Of course. I have lost track. So my question about online activity could be relevant. But so is everything else.

My DD's could be scathing and moaned a lot but this sounds worse. What's his mh like? How is he with his friends?