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AIBU?

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I'm quitting teaching, I've decided, AIBU?

385 replies

thequickbrowndog · 25/08/2024 07:23

That's it, I'm done, I'm leaving! I've spent the whole summer dreading going back. I adore the kids (secondary boys school) but I can't be bullied anymore. I can't stand my work colleagues, I've had to make a formal complaint about bullying. My boss clearly favours other staff over me. Everything always just seems unfair but I just have to get on with it. I work part time but am stressed about it full time because of all the passive aggressive emails while I'm off.
I don't have a job to go to yet, but I'm just done. I can't go back. AIBU?

OP posts:
Gladtobeout · 25/08/2024 23:51

EnidSpyton · 25/08/2024 22:27

Respectfully, you have no idea what you're talking about with regard to my personal situations and what has transpired in my workplaces, so suggesting I am to blame for what happened to me because of the arrogance you perceive me to possess is totally uncalled for. It's also highly patronising to suggest I need to read my post back and reflect on it. I think you might want to check that desire to patronise, as it's not a great trait in a Head of Department, FYI.

Of course I don't walk around work thinking I'm the dog's bollocks and lording it over everyone. I didn't say anywhere in my post that I think I'm better than everyone else - you've decided to read that into what I wrote. I'm a collaborative, helpful and supportive colleague who has plenty of friends in my current school and loads of friends I'm still in touch with from previous schools. I really value my colleagues and love learning from them, and I know they value me, because they tell me so. We have a fantastic relationship and I'm really lucky to work with such fabulous people.

I have been bullied by Headteachers who have been threatened by me because they have assumed I am after their jobs due to my capabilities. I have no interest in being a Headteacher. But I am outspoken in defending the interests of my team and my students, and I ask difficult questions. I have been unfortunate to work in schools where the Headteachers have not been very experienced, competent or well qualified, and rather than seek to learn from their staff with more of those qualities than them, they sought to stamp them down. I was not the only victim of their ire. Up until my current job, I was always a Head of a core faculty, which put me in the firing line - because I refused to make my team carry out the directives from above that I knew were not based on sound pedagogy or student wellbeing, but merely to tick boxes, which would have put huge pressure on my team - already at breaking point - and added further stress to our students, who really didn't need more assessments and more feedback and more hoops to jump through to measure their achievement. When I challenged the rationale for decisions management couldn't justify, because the only reason they were doing these things was to be seen to be doing something, they made me persona non grata. I have always stood up for my team and my students. It's literally a Head of Department's job to do that. I'm not going to sit in a meeting and accept someone asking me to make my team do things I know are actively harmful to them and the young people we teach when there is literally no justifiable, intelligent, reasoned decision for doing so other than ticking imaginary 'but Ofsted might want to see...' boxes. You are fortunate if you haven't worked in a school with incompetent idiots as managers, but many of us in this profession sadly do, especially if you've the misfortune to end up in an academy chain.

The reality is, I am intelligent (Oxbridge degree, two MAs and half way to a PhD, if you need proof), I am very good at my job (my relationships with my students and the progress they make are evidence of this), and I am really passionate about what I do. I shouldn't have to put myself down in order to please and placate other people. A man wouldn't have any qualms in stating his professional competence, so I don't see why I should have to. I am clever, I am well qualified, and I am good at my job. I'm not going to pretend otherwise. It's ok to be proud of what you have achieved in life, you know.

I suggest you work on your own confidence rather than trying to drag other people down. Your post says a lot more about you and how you feel about yourself than it does about me.

And unfortunately yours is not an unusual story in schools.

A previous school I worked in, it was clear to all that the head had favourites. I was a favourite for the first few months, until I dared to question the rationale of making 5year olds in y1 sit formal written assessment when we were operating a semi-EYFS set up because they'd missed a lot of reception due to covid. Suddenly I became public enemy no.1 and was excluded from SLT meetings, my assessment data was scrutinised because obviously I had suddenly become a shit teacher overnight and my class couldn't be making such good progress, and I was gaslighted, being pulled into meetings for failing to do xyz which had never been communicated to me or I had actively been told the opposite (and had an email trail of proof). Living hell for the last 6 months until I could leave at the end of the year. And all because I dared to question the egotistical head.

EnidSpyton · 25/08/2024 22:27

miniaturepixieonacid · 25/08/2024 17:05

I’ve been bullied at work in more than one school. I know why. I’m clever, competent, capable, very well qualified and popular with my colleagues and pupils. I’m passionate and enthusiastic about my work. These attributes consistently threaten ineffective people I work with and who I have worked with in the past in management positions. I might also add that I am slim and conventionally attractive which has caused issues with female managers who are not those things. I can’t help how I look and I can’t help how other people feel about me being more competent than them. I don’t need fucking counselling to get to the bottom of what the issues are - there’s nothing wrong with me. It’s the same for the OP. She’s an experienced and capable teacher being bullied by someone who isn’t. It’s not rocket science is it

😮😮
I know you're speaking out against victim blaming here but really? Read it back and see how that sounds to you. To me it comes across like you think you are significantly better than others - more intelligent, better at your job, more popular, prettier, thinner and more passionate. If that attitude shows in how you relate to other people, then I think it is actually understandable if their reaction is negative! And I don't think that would be victim blaming, I think it would 6 of one and half a dozen of the other but possibly initiated by you. I haven't seen into your personal situation of course (at least, I don't think I have - I'm a not particularly attractive, not particularly intelligent, not particularly popular HoD with some very young, pretty, clever, popular colleagues so maybe I have actually tried to manage you, who knows!) so accept that you may not come across like that in person. But, if I'd written something like that, I'd want to check it wasn't showing in how I actually behave.

Respectfully, you have no idea what you're talking about with regard to my personal situations and what has transpired in my workplaces, so suggesting I am to blame for what happened to me because of the arrogance you perceive me to possess is totally uncalled for. It's also highly patronising to suggest I need to read my post back and reflect on it. I think you might want to check that desire to patronise, as it's not a great trait in a Head of Department, FYI.

Of course I don't walk around work thinking I'm the dog's bollocks and lording it over everyone. I didn't say anywhere in my post that I think I'm better than everyone else - you've decided to read that into what I wrote. I'm a collaborative, helpful and supportive colleague who has plenty of friends in my current school and loads of friends I'm still in touch with from previous schools. I really value my colleagues and love learning from them, and I know they value me, because they tell me so. We have a fantastic relationship and I'm really lucky to work with such fabulous people.

I have been bullied by Headteachers who have been threatened by me because they have assumed I am after their jobs due to my capabilities. I have no interest in being a Headteacher. But I am outspoken in defending the interests of my team and my students, and I ask difficult questions. I have been unfortunate to work in schools where the Headteachers have not been very experienced, competent or well qualified, and rather than seek to learn from their staff with more of those qualities than them, they sought to stamp them down. I was not the only victim of their ire. Up until my current job, I was always a Head of a core faculty, which put me in the firing line - because I refused to make my team carry out the directives from above that I knew were not based on sound pedagogy or student wellbeing, but merely to tick boxes, which would have put huge pressure on my team - already at breaking point - and added further stress to our students, who really didn't need more assessments and more feedback and more hoops to jump through to measure their achievement. When I challenged the rationale for decisions management couldn't justify, because the only reason they were doing these things was to be seen to be doing something, they made me persona non grata. I have always stood up for my team and my students. It's literally a Head of Department's job to do that. I'm not going to sit in a meeting and accept someone asking me to make my team do things I know are actively harmful to them and the young people we teach when there is literally no justifiable, intelligent, reasoned decision for doing so other than ticking imaginary 'but Ofsted might want to see...' boxes. You are fortunate if you haven't worked in a school with incompetent idiots as managers, but many of us in this profession sadly do, especially if you've the misfortune to end up in an academy chain.

The reality is, I am intelligent (Oxbridge degree, two MAs and half way to a PhD, if you need proof), I am very good at my job (my relationships with my students and the progress they make are evidence of this), and I am really passionate about what I do. I shouldn't have to put myself down in order to please and placate other people. A man wouldn't have any qualms in stating his professional competence, so I don't see why I should have to. I am clever, I am well qualified, and I am good at my job. I'm not going to pretend otherwise. It's ok to be proud of what you have achieved in life, you know.

I suggest you work on your own confidence rather than trying to drag other people down. Your post says a lot more about you and how you feel about yourself than it does about me.

KTheGrey · 25/08/2024 18:59

Aliciainwunderland · 25/08/2024 18:43

at least the last post was deleted before op could see it. It’s honestly awful when people say ‘my taxes pay your wages’ and therefore you are deemed not allowed to go off sick. That’s the way I was made to feel and I got to the point after I had handed my notice in that if I crashed my car into a tree at least I wouldn’t have to go to work.

I am sorry your school let you get to that point. You’d think people would feel more aggrieved about their taxes paying the wages of bullies and other assorted arses who make teaching an impossible job.

Aliciainwunderland · 25/08/2024 18:43

at least the last post was deleted before op could see it. It’s honestly awful when people say ‘my taxes pay your wages’ and therefore you are deemed not allowed to go off sick. That’s the way I was made to feel and I got to the point after I had handed my notice in that if I crashed my car into a tree at least I wouldn’t have to go to work.

Respectisnotoptional · 25/08/2024 17:14

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miniaturepixieonacid · 25/08/2024 17:05

I’ve been bullied at work in more than one school. I know why. I’m clever, competent, capable, very well qualified and popular with my colleagues and pupils. I’m passionate and enthusiastic about my work. These attributes consistently threaten ineffective people I work with and who I have worked with in the past in management positions. I might also add that I am slim and conventionally attractive which has caused issues with female managers who are not those things. I can’t help how I look and I can’t help how other people feel about me being more competent than them. I don’t need fucking counselling to get to the bottom of what the issues are - there’s nothing wrong with me. It’s the same for the OP. She’s an experienced and capable teacher being bullied by someone who isn’t. It’s not rocket science is it

😮😮
I know you're speaking out against victim blaming here but really? Read it back and see how that sounds to you. To me it comes across like you think you are significantly better than others - more intelligent, better at your job, more popular, prettier, thinner and more passionate. If that attitude shows in how you relate to other people, then I think it is actually understandable if their reaction is negative! And I don't think that would be victim blaming, I think it would 6 of one and half a dozen of the other but possibly initiated by you. I haven't seen into your personal situation of course (at least, I don't think I have - I'm a not particularly attractive, not particularly intelligent, not particularly popular HoD with some very young, pretty, clever, popular colleagues so maybe I have actually tried to manage you, who knows!) so accept that you may not come across like that in person. But, if I'd written something like that, I'd want to check it wasn't showing in how I actually behave.

AnnaDor · 25/08/2024 16:13

Not read the other replies, but I felt the same in 2018. My mental health plummeted and I didn't go back for September INSET. Called in sick that day (I felt too awful to go in) and never communicated with them again. Union negotiated my immediate release. Ended up with a settlement (similar to you, I'd raised a previous grievance, and they hadn't followed appropriate duty of care with respect to my existing health conditions and Equality Act things - and they wanted to be sure I wouldn't raise a case of constructive dismissal or similar against them). The settlement gave me full pay until Christmas without me needing to step foot in the school again and the union got the wording of the settlement changed to allow me to work immediately if I got a job. If you go down this route you can request the settlement to be paid as a tax free lump sum; or you can request it to be paid as usual salary so you still get it monthly and taxed but also get the pension contributions - if you don't request either of these, they will give you it taxed in a lump sum.
There's a very supportive Facebook group that appeared during Covid if you want ideas of what to do instead of teaching. I spent some time exploring other settings (e.g. primary instead of secondary) before leaving completely.
Good luck!

estornudar · 25/08/2024 15:04

thequickbrowndog · 25/08/2024 09:36

No I haven't, but will give it some thought. What are the positive differences you have found?

No exam pressure, significantly reduced marking, smaller class sizes, more of a focus on the child, better CPD opportunities, compassionate SLT. I'm a completely different teacher to who I was two years ago but it has been well worth it!

KTheGrey · 25/08/2024 14:00

This reply has been deleted

This has been withdrawn by MNHQ for breaking our Talk Guidelines. at the request of it's author.

Ask the Union about raising a grievance. Schools often prefer to pay staff in lieu rather than review their own toxicity.

NotTram · 25/08/2024 13:56

Absolutely don't go back.
Do you want to try another school?
Or another job.
Life is too short

Foostit · 25/08/2024 13:52

OP put yourself first and make the right decision for you. Don’t let anyone on here who has no idea what you’re going through feel guilty in any way, For those saying it’s unfair to colleagues or children, this is not the OPs problem. If schools cared about staff and students then they would treat staff better to reduce this situation from happening in the first place. I’m leaving teaching next week after 20 years for similar reasons. I’m curious to know where these lovely schools are because I’m not aware of many! I’ve only worked in one that didn’t have the issues the OP referred to. However, judging by the fact that I recognise a few names from that school on the FB leaving teaching forum I’m assuming that school is no longer as lovely as it once was! Rather than arguing on here it would be more productive if people were actively trying to improve the situation in schools. With so many teachers leaving and few people wanting to join, I’m genuinely afraid for the future of education in this country!

miniaturepixieonacid · 25/08/2024 13:31

ChangeEmailAddress · 25/08/2024 08:13

This is what I don't understand about teachers/teaching. Why is there such a 'thing' about deciding to do another job? Loads of people hand their notice in and decide to do something else everyday with no drama.

There's a great big world outside of the classroom, and I sometimes wonder if teaching degrees should only start after a year or two of people being in it. Bouncing from a classroom to classroom and then working in a classroom isn't a well rounded approach in my opinion. Some of the best and most enthusiastic teachers I know came to it later in life.

I think, for many of us, it is a bigger deal than leaving most jobs precisely because we haven't experienced that 'big wide world' ever. Not everyone obviously, I know plenty of teachers have had previous careers. But, if you haven't, a classroom is literally all you know. I went from school to university to teaching and have not left the education system since the age of 3 - which is 37 years ago! I wouldn't know where to begin finding another kind of job. Luckily, I wouldn't want to because I love teaching and love the holidays even more. 4 weeks off a year fills me with horror. 😉 I have always had a summer and can't imagine surviving without one.

OP, I've only got as far in the thread as the post I've quoted but it sounds like you need another school, not another career. Why give up a profession you enjoy because of some horrible people. Most teachers are not toxic bullies. And I think you're getting a hard time because you stated that your plan to get out of the notice period was to go off sick. You didn't say that you are sick. Obviously the latter is reasonable whereas the former is an awful thing to do. But you weren't clear (at least early on) which was the case.

ironyisnotlost24 · 25/08/2024 13:20

PoohBearsBelly · 25/08/2024 07:31

Do it, and don't let yourself be dragged back in a few years later once you've recovered like I did! It's crap, and always will be crap, because teachers know how to manage children not adults. Things will not change until there is proper training for senior teams on how to actually run a team.

Quit, find something you love and don't look back

This is so true.

Another PTA parent was telling me that she saw our HT telling off a learning support teacher for being late (again).

As much as that's not acceptable in itself there's no way any other workplace would think the way school leaders speak to both their colleagues and students is ok. Raising voices in anger at other people is no longer appropriate, and nor should it be.

Bromptotoo · 25/08/2024 13:03

Some say AIBU wasn't the right place for this question as the phrase itself encourges people to vote one way or the other.

Not just AIBU; people who are openly disbelieving or quick to condemn and judge others are all over threads about Welfare Benefits too. They post stuff that makes it crystal clear they've no understanding of the subject whatever.

Aliciainwunderland · 25/08/2024 12:56

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I’m sorry you feel the need to leave. Some people are just bizarre on these threads and so so very unhelpful whilst shouting that they have the right to know your life story. I have been in your shoes and I am so sorry. I actually posted on here when I was at my lowest ebb and found the responses helpful but I posted in the work chat and found the advice a lot less troll-ey.

Matronic6 · 25/08/2024 12:23

Justbeliketheraggydolls · 25/08/2024 12:05

Rude much? Nothing wrong with @Wakeywake comment. You can’t be rude to everybody who points out that people leave jobs every day. I get that being a teacher is a hard job and being bullied isn’t something anyone should put up with, but you seem very hostile to anyone who disagrees with you and a lot of so called “bullying” in this thread is not bullying imo. As someone who states they are being bullied, I would hope you would recognise the difference between actual bullying and someone having a different view point to yourself.

You can't say that OP's comment of 'pointless much' was rude but the comment of 'dramatic much?' was ok!

Besides, that posters comment was pointless as she was giving redundant advice. OP has already stated she has decided to leave, which she made clear in her very first post. It was literally a pointless comment.

Werweisswohin · 25/08/2024 12:21

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Is this the way you respond to any criticism at work too?

Justbeliketheraggydolls · 25/08/2024 12:20

I’m not a troll. I’m just a person who has been through some shit in my career and left and took a different job in a completely new area. I had a lot of time off with my mental health over the previous 2 years, but I worked my notice and I walked out without so much as a “bye” after 18 years in the field. And it was the best decision I ever made…

but I am still entitled to say the OP is rude

Justbeliketheraggydolls · 25/08/2024 12:17

Bromptotoo · 25/08/2024 12:12

@Justbeliketheraggydolls I think the issue in teaching is the required notice, even at a junior level.

I left a job in July because I recognised I was a square peg in a round hole and wasn't pulling my weight in a team of four. Handed in my notice around a week in to July and last day was 31st with a fortnight's holiday in between. Charitable sector.

Started new job on 13 August in a role I'd been in before and loved, same sector different part of a federal structure. It felt like coming home

Absolutely agree with you, it’s madness. Any teacher would agree. I’m not saying it is right, but it’s the way it is (rightly or wrongly) and every teacher knows that. It comes with the job and it’s a condition you take on when you enter that field.
Thank you for your polite reply.

@thequickbrowndog you are being very rude. You might want to rethink whether AIBU is the best place for this conversation

RM2013 · 25/08/2024 12:17

Life is too short to be so unhappy and we spend so many hours of our life at work. A family member was feeling very similar. She tried a couple of different schools but still found that teaching was sucking the life out of her. She now works in a different role, still in a school but safeguarding and it isn’t without its challenges but she’s much happier and has more free time - no more lesson planning and marking at home.
i hope you find the right balance for you

thequickbrowndog · 25/08/2024 12:17

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Bromptotoo · 25/08/2024 12:12

@Justbeliketheraggydolls I think the issue in teaching is the required notice, even at a junior level.

I left a job in July because I recognised I was a square peg in a round hole and wasn't pulling my weight in a team of four. Handed in my notice around a week in to July and last day was 31st with a fortnight's holiday in between. Charitable sector.

Started new job on 13 August in a role I'd been in before and loved, same sector different part of a federal structure. It felt like coming home

thequickbrowndog · 25/08/2024 12:12

@Justbeliketheraggydolls I think you'll find I haven't called anyone a bully. Perhaps read the thread before you comment

OP posts:
Werweisswohin · 25/08/2024 12:08

Justbeliketheraggydolls · 25/08/2024 12:05

Rude much? Nothing wrong with @Wakeywake comment. You can’t be rude to everybody who points out that people leave jobs every day. I get that being a teacher is a hard job and being bullied isn’t something anyone should put up with, but you seem very hostile to anyone who disagrees with you and a lot of so called “bullying” in this thread is not bullying imo. As someone who states they are being bullied, I would hope you would recognise the difference between actual bullying and someone having a different view point to yourself.

Yes, there's an interesting interpretation of bullying from a few posters.

Longma · 25/08/2024 12:08

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