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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

I'm quitting teaching, I've decided, AIBU?

385 replies

thequickbrowndog · 25/08/2024 07:23

That's it, I'm done, I'm leaving! I've spent the whole summer dreading going back. I adore the kids (secondary boys school) but I can't be bullied anymore. I can't stand my work colleagues, I've had to make a formal complaint about bullying. My boss clearly favours other staff over me. Everything always just seems unfair but I just have to get on with it. I work part time but am stressed about it full time because of all the passive aggressive emails while I'm off.
I don't have a job to go to yet, but I'm just done. I can't go back. AIBU?

OP posts:
Beaker0581 · 26/08/2024 17:45

I was once in your shoes.

Walked away from secondary teaching after a decade. Retrained as a swimming teacher -the idea being I would still be teaching but without the paperwork...

A decade later and my swim school is starting it's 6th year!

RavenhairedRachel · 26/08/2024 17:44

My daughter quit after 10 years as a teacher and she can honestly say it's the best thing she's done. She loved actually teaching the kids but it was all the other things. Schools are run like a business and it's all about targets .She still works in education but for the local authority education department. Still stressful but not as bad as teaching.

FriendlyRobin · 26/08/2024 17:38

@miaoweeee what did you move into?

I feel like whatever I do will be a huge pay cut. And I'm so scared of moving into soemthing I can't work up again from.

Feelingleftoutagain · 26/08/2024 17:32

Congratulations teaching sucks! I left 5 years ago after experiencing the same management who can't teach trying to tell me how to, emails at all times of day or night and all through the summer, I worked out the amount of time I spent teaching, marking and planning was just way to much and I had no life I was permanently tired and felt ill. I WFH for a while and loved it. They gave me my confidence back and made me feel valued, when I retired( I've retired very early) they said if I ever want to come back just call they will find me a job. Take the time off with MH put the emails to DND and look for something that excites you there is a whole world out there, that is open because of your teaching qualifications x

miaoweeee · 26/08/2024 12:19

I did this. Went off sick until my official notice period was up and did not feel guilty at all. In fact, this was the least the school owed me compared to what I sacrificed for them over the years.

Anyway, my intention was to leave teaching altogether but I chickened out and went back in on long term supply. If you are even a half decent teacher (which I'm sure you are), literally any school will take you on and won't care about your sick record. Honestly. I went back to the same local authority and I know my new HT spoke to the old one over the phone. I was still a good prospect as I was a qualified and experienced teacher with a pulse (and that's all you need now).

I did actually make the big move and left teaching a couple of years later (after another period of sick leave but this time with a more socially acceptable reason). Had to take a massive pay cut as I just didn't have the confidence or self-belief to 'sell' myself at interview for better roles.

I can say it was the best thing I ever did and was promoted with a huge pay increase after 6 months. Did not miss the school holidays one bit. Never get the Sunday scaries. Oh and haven't yet needed even one sick day as I'm not stressed 24 hours a day anymore.

It was a gamble but I am so glad I took it and I wish I had done this 5 years ago.

Go sick. Do not feel guilty. Get what you can out of the school that has mentally and physically worn you down. If anyone can't understand why you'd take this option, well all I can say is they should think themselves lucky that they cannot even imagine a scenario where this would be acceptable.

Werweisswohin · 26/08/2024 11:18

Bromptotoo · 26/08/2024 11:10

Please can we leave the spats out.

Seems not.

Greytulips · 26/08/2024 11:11

I feel like I wouldn't know where to start in a new career. All I know is teaching, and my subject - which isn't one that can side step me into a different career easily.

I now work for a larger corporate insurance company - there are in house trainers - good job lots of promotional aspects as you learn each department.

I do training within a team as I have patients and can show them where things go wrong and put them in the right path -

The team managers have a similar role to class teachers - organised, run meetings, run training sessions, deal with personal issues, check results (daily weekly) update management etc they have to sort the work and allocate, use people’s strengths when busy, and build confidence and training when the work slows down - organise holidays and sickness etc

Bromptotoo · 26/08/2024 11:10

Please can we leave the spats out.

Miffylou · 26/08/2024 11:09

EnidSpyton · 26/08/2024 11:03

@Miffylou

I'm sorry you find me patronising. That was not my intention. Unfortunately, however, your tone does come across as aggressive and unkind, and your choice to try and discredit people's experiences of bullying does not reflect well on you at all.

I know that being attractive has its benefits on a sociological level and that this is proven. I don't deny I have benefited from my looks in various areas of my life. However, there are two sides to the coin, and there can also be enormous disadvantages to being attractive - namely, jealousy from other women, and also predatory behaviour from men. I have experienced both, frequently. I'm sorry that you don't like me saying it, but it is the truth. I'm not going to deny my reality because other women don't like me saying that being attractive causes problems as well as advantages.

None of this is helpful to the OP, however, so let's leave it there. Enjoy your Bank Holiday Monday.

FYI, telling someone that something you perceive they have done "does not reflect well on you at all" also comes across as patronising. (At the risk of sounding patronising myself: you might want to reflect on whether saying this sort of thing to colleagues might have contributed to poor relationships.)
Have a nice day.

Werweisswohin · 26/08/2024 11:08

EnidSpyton · 26/08/2024 10:48

@Werweisswohin

If you bothered to read my posts, you'd see I originally mentioned it in reference to my own experience of being bullied at work, in support and acknowledgement of the OP's experiences. What I look like has been the cause of bullying for me personally. Other people have decided to pick up on that one reference and make a big deal out of it, not me.

I don't really care what I look like. I don't think it should matter at all in the workplace. But unfortunately it has been an issue for some women I've worked with and they've used it to bully me. I really don't understand why this is so unbelievable or offensive to people on this thread.

Hmmm.
Perhaps it was also your attitude?

EnidSpyton · 26/08/2024 11:03

@Miffylou

I'm sorry you find me patronising. That was not my intention. Unfortunately, however, your tone does come across as aggressive and unkind, and your choice to try and discredit people's experiences of bullying does not reflect well on you at all.

I know that being attractive has its benefits on a sociological level and that this is proven. I don't deny I have benefited from my looks in various areas of my life. However, there are two sides to the coin, and there can also be enormous disadvantages to being attractive - namely, jealousy from other women, and also predatory behaviour from men. I have experienced both, frequently. I'm sorry that you don't like me saying it, but it is the truth. I'm not going to deny my reality because other women don't like me saying that being attractive causes problems as well as advantages.

None of this is helpful to the OP, however, so let's leave it there. Enjoy your Bank Holiday Monday.

Miffylou · 26/08/2024 10:53

EnidSpyton · 26/08/2024 10:37

@Miffylou

I don't go around in everyday life telling everyone how great I am. That would be absurd. My results also speak for themselves. My colleagues know I'm good at my job not because I tell them (who would go around telling their colleagues how great they are?!), but because it's self evident in the work I produce and the relationships I have with them and my students. But I don't work with the people on this thread on Mumsnet, and none of us have met each other. Therefore I am obviously being far more overt on this thread than I would need to be in real life.

Unfortunately jealousy has been made very obvious in various workplaces I've been in, and that's just the truth of my experience. It's not mind-reading. It's manifested in real, evidenced behaviours. If you don't want to believe me or find my self-confidence off-putting, then that's absolutely fine. I don't need you - a random internet stranger - to believe me or like me. It is, however, a shame that you seem to feel the need to discount and discredit other people's experiences. You might want to reflect on why you feel the need to do that.

I might also add that me daring to state that I'm attractive and that other women have been jealous of that has brought out nastiness from more than one poster. Which exactly proves my point!

Fine. But you might be interested in knowing that telling people "you might want to reflect on…" or "you might like to consider why…" or "I suggest you work on…" comes across as enormously patronising. (Or perhaps you do it deliberately.)

The reason people dislike you talking about what you perceive as the disadvantages of being attractive is that research has established that physically attractive people have more success socially, personally and professionally. So complaining about it is not a good look.

EnidSpyton · 26/08/2024 10:48

@Werweisswohin

If you bothered to read my posts, you'd see I originally mentioned it in reference to my own experience of being bullied at work, in support and acknowledgement of the OP's experiences. What I look like has been the cause of bullying for me personally. Other people have decided to pick up on that one reference and make a big deal out of it, not me.

I don't really care what I look like. I don't think it should matter at all in the workplace. But unfortunately it has been an issue for some women I've worked with and they've used it to bully me. I really don't understand why this is so unbelievable or offensive to people on this thread.

Werweisswohin · 26/08/2024 10:40

EnidSpyton · 26/08/2024 10:37

@Miffylou

I don't go around in everyday life telling everyone how great I am. That would be absurd. My results also speak for themselves. My colleagues know I'm good at my job not because I tell them (who would go around telling their colleagues how great they are?!), but because it's self evident in the work I produce and the relationships I have with them and my students. But I don't work with the people on this thread on Mumsnet, and none of us have met each other. Therefore I am obviously being far more overt on this thread than I would need to be in real life.

Unfortunately jealousy has been made very obvious in various workplaces I've been in, and that's just the truth of my experience. It's not mind-reading. It's manifested in real, evidenced behaviours. If you don't want to believe me or find my self-confidence off-putting, then that's absolutely fine. I don't need you - a random internet stranger - to believe me or like me. It is, however, a shame that you seem to feel the need to discount and discredit other people's experiences. You might want to reflect on why you feel the need to do that.

I might also add that me daring to state that I'm attractive and that other women have been jealous of that has brought out nastiness from more than one poster. Which exactly proves my point!

Who cares how 'attractive' you think you are though? How is it relevant to this thread?

EnidSpyton · 26/08/2024 10:37

@Miffylou

I don't go around in everyday life telling everyone how great I am. That would be absurd. My results also speak for themselves. My colleagues know I'm good at my job not because I tell them (who would go around telling their colleagues how great they are?!), but because it's self evident in the work I produce and the relationships I have with them and my students. But I don't work with the people on this thread on Mumsnet, and none of us have met each other. Therefore I am obviously being far more overt on this thread than I would need to be in real life.

Unfortunately jealousy has been made very obvious in various workplaces I've been in, and that's just the truth of my experience. It's not mind-reading. It's manifested in real, evidenced behaviours. If you don't want to believe me or find my self-confidence off-putting, then that's absolutely fine. I don't need you - a random internet stranger - to believe me or like me. It is, however, a shame that you seem to feel the need to discount and discredit other people's experiences. You might want to reflect on why you feel the need to do that.

I might also add that me daring to state that I'm attractive and that other women have been jealous of that has brought out nastiness from more than one poster. Which exactly proves my point!

Werweisswohin · 26/08/2024 10:35

@Miffylou said: And it is very off-putting to impute jealousy to people you don’t get on with or who you think are less physically attractive than you are. It's daft to imagine you can read people's minds.

Wholeheartedly agreed!

Miffylou · 26/08/2024 10:20

EnidSpyton · 26/08/2024 10:05

@Miffylou

What precisely is wrong with appreciating your own skills and abilities?

Why should we be expected to constantly put ourselves down, make ourselves smaller, deny our talents?

Men aren't expected to - in fact, they're praised for doing the exact opposite. But women are expected to constantly be self-effacing and diminish who they are and what they can do. If they do praise themselves in any way, they're criticised as being arrogant, egotistical, delusional, etc.

I'm sick and tired of the double standard. And what's sad is that it's not actually men who do this policing - it's other women. Women on Mumsnet are awful at policing and belittling women who do dare to acknowledge - yeah, actually, you know what, I am pretty good at what I do. The minute a woman praises herself, the vipers come out. As women, we should be encouraging and lifting one another up, not pulling each other down. The world tries hard enough to do that to us as it is.

I'm not ashamed of the fact that I am clever and competent and talented at my chosen profession. I am proud of what I have achieved. I see nothing wrong in acknowledging that. Perhaps you might like to consider why you find that a problem.

I agree with much of what you say. In general women tend to be too self-effacing and men tend to display confidence even when it’s unfounded. Male teachers are often overrated by parents because of their over-confidence.

I'm good at what I do too. But I don’t feel the need to tell everyone that, because my results speak for themselves. And it is very off-putting to impute jealousy to people you don’t get on with or who you think are less physically attractive than you are. It's daft to imagine you can read people's minds.

EnidSpyton · 26/08/2024 10:05

@Miffylou

What precisely is wrong with appreciating your own skills and abilities?

Why should we be expected to constantly put ourselves down, make ourselves smaller, deny our talents?

Men aren't expected to - in fact, they're praised for doing the exact opposite. But women are expected to constantly be self-effacing and diminish who they are and what they can do. If they do praise themselves in any way, they're criticised as being arrogant, egotistical, delusional, etc.

I'm sick and tired of the double standard. And what's sad is that it's not actually men who do this policing - it's other women. Women on Mumsnet are awful at policing and belittling women who do dare to acknowledge - yeah, actually, you know what, I am pretty good at what I do. The minute a woman praises herself, the vipers come out. As women, we should be encouraging and lifting one another up, not pulling each other down. The world tries hard enough to do that to us as it is.

I'm not ashamed of the fact that I am clever and competent and talented at my chosen profession. I am proud of what I have achieved. I see nothing wrong in acknowledging that. Perhaps you might like to consider why you find that a problem.

Miffylou · 26/08/2024 09:50

EnidSpyton · 25/08/2024 22:27

Respectfully, you have no idea what you're talking about with regard to my personal situations and what has transpired in my workplaces, so suggesting I am to blame for what happened to me because of the arrogance you perceive me to possess is totally uncalled for. It's also highly patronising to suggest I need to read my post back and reflect on it. I think you might want to check that desire to patronise, as it's not a great trait in a Head of Department, FYI.

Of course I don't walk around work thinking I'm the dog's bollocks and lording it over everyone. I didn't say anywhere in my post that I think I'm better than everyone else - you've decided to read that into what I wrote. I'm a collaborative, helpful and supportive colleague who has plenty of friends in my current school and loads of friends I'm still in touch with from previous schools. I really value my colleagues and love learning from them, and I know they value me, because they tell me so. We have a fantastic relationship and I'm really lucky to work with such fabulous people.

I have been bullied by Headteachers who have been threatened by me because they have assumed I am after their jobs due to my capabilities. I have no interest in being a Headteacher. But I am outspoken in defending the interests of my team and my students, and I ask difficult questions. I have been unfortunate to work in schools where the Headteachers have not been very experienced, competent or well qualified, and rather than seek to learn from their staff with more of those qualities than them, they sought to stamp them down. I was not the only victim of their ire. Up until my current job, I was always a Head of a core faculty, which put me in the firing line - because I refused to make my team carry out the directives from above that I knew were not based on sound pedagogy or student wellbeing, but merely to tick boxes, which would have put huge pressure on my team - already at breaking point - and added further stress to our students, who really didn't need more assessments and more feedback and more hoops to jump through to measure their achievement. When I challenged the rationale for decisions management couldn't justify, because the only reason they were doing these things was to be seen to be doing something, they made me persona non grata. I have always stood up for my team and my students. It's literally a Head of Department's job to do that. I'm not going to sit in a meeting and accept someone asking me to make my team do things I know are actively harmful to them and the young people we teach when there is literally no justifiable, intelligent, reasoned decision for doing so other than ticking imaginary 'but Ofsted might want to see...' boxes. You are fortunate if you haven't worked in a school with incompetent idiots as managers, but many of us in this profession sadly do, especially if you've the misfortune to end up in an academy chain.

The reality is, I am intelligent (Oxbridge degree, two MAs and half way to a PhD, if you need proof), I am very good at my job (my relationships with my students and the progress they make are evidence of this), and I am really passionate about what I do. I shouldn't have to put myself down in order to please and placate other people. A man wouldn't have any qualms in stating his professional competence, so I don't see why I should have to. I am clever, I am well qualified, and I am good at my job. I'm not going to pretend otherwise. It's ok to be proud of what you have achieved in life, you know.

I suggest you work on your own confidence rather than trying to drag other people down. Your post says a lot more about you and how you feel about yourself than it does about me.

No need to try to gain the appreciation of MN users - you seem to get plenty of appreciation from yourself.

Werweisswohin · 26/08/2024 08:51

Also, to add, I've worked with loads of women from a range of backgrounds and styles and intelligence - the ones I saw as beautiful ones were the ones with honesty and integrity, regardless of their clothing/looks. I often admired unique style, and complimented folk too if appropriate, but jealousy? What of? Genetics?

Werweisswohin · 26/08/2024 08:38

This reply has been deleted

Message deleted by MNHQ. Here's a link to our Talk Guidelines.

I'm not surprised at your response.
Yawn indeed.

EnidSpyton · 26/08/2024 07:43

This reply has been deleted

Message deleted by MNHQ. Here's a link to our Talk Guidelines.

Werweisswohin · 26/08/2024 07:33

I am starting understand why some of these posters find it hard to get along with people at work. 🫣🫣🫣

EnidSpyton · 26/08/2024 07:30

@miniaturepixieonacid

I appreciate you explaining your viewpoint further.

I know it’s not the done thing to talk about your appearance and how it affects things in the workplace, but I wish more people would, because it is a genuine barrier I have experienced. I’ve talked to some other female friends about it and a couple have also reluctantly admitted they have experienced the same nastiness from female colleagues or managers who are jealous of them because of how they look.

Again, I can’t help reality. My mother was a model and I have inherited her looks. I’m tall, I’m very slim, and I am quite striking looking. I know this to be true because people comment on it every day and I have spent my life being stared at. I don’t seek to attract attention and I don’t care about what I look like - I go to work in jeans and a t shirt with my hair screwed up (I work in a very relaxed non uniform school). My current line manager (a woman) mentions how ‘sickeningly’ beautiful I am every.single.time. she passes me in the corridor in a very unpleasant way and constantly seeks to undermine and belittle me because she’s jealous of me. Again, nothing I do to warrant it. When you’re attractive, you notice how it changes people’s reactions to you. People are either very nice to you or they take a dislike to you. I’m sorry you find that shocking, but it is unfortunately my reality.

Anyway I’m sure you’re very good at your job and I would suggest you improving your self talk a little. Being a head of department is a big old juggling act and you have to be good at many things to do the job well. I’m sure you’re a lot more competent and talented than just being ‘fine’. 😊

miniaturepixieonacid · 26/08/2024 00:15

EnidSpyton Your second post is nothing like your first - it explains how you work which sounds assertive and good - perhaps not everyone's cup of tea, as you've experienced, but effective and your style that works for you. Your first post does not read that way at all - in my opinion obviously. Especially specifically pointing out that you are slim and pretty and that you feel female managers are jealous of that. That was the bit that really shocked me, not the intelligence, job performance bit.

I don't think I'm underconfident, just realistic. I am fine at my job, I have friends, I have a good degree, I'm not hideous. But I'm nothing special or particularly good/attractive. Just like most of us. I think it's unusual to state otherwise, especially in reference to your figure and attractiveness. I didn't mean to be patronising though. I've just found that most people, myself included, often don't realise when we might be sending signals that put people's backs up. And I'm always wary to look out for them. Which clearly I did with you too so I will definitely take that on board too.