Does anyone else not really have any friends?

@XChrome

Women also are more likely to actually care about you as a person than men are.

This is the real nub of the issue for me. All things being equal a friendship with a woman is more likely to be based on shared values and respect than a relationship with a man because (if you are heterosexual) it’s not a transaction oriented towards sex. There are honourable men and strong marriages of course but on a population basis men’s intentions towards women are far more likely to be oriented around what a man can get from a woman sexually.

Which is why it’s bizarre that so many people are posting on here that they find it easier to connect with them.

Are these people saying that they prefer a relationship which is largely oriented towards sex and domestic labour than one on which you are valued for your intrinsic value?

My mind is a bit blown..,

@SeaweedSundress

It should be said my mother is 80, is very socially timid, and remains astonished that her daughters, despite being coupled up and/or parents, still abandon the domestic hearth for their friends on a regular basis.

To be fair to your mother this is fairly standard for women of that generation. What shocks me a bit is how many women on Mumsnet who are 30 or 40 years younger seem to regard female friends as a burden, a bore or something unnecessary.

Chronic pain sufferer here too. It does make it more difficult to be social. You might accept an invitation and then not feel well enough to go. People then think you've snubbed them. Even if you explain the situation, they just can't imagine what it's like, so they don't understand why it stops you from socializing. Some members of my extended family don't get it and just think I'm not interested in seeing them. It destroyed my relationship with my favourite cousin, who thought I was making excuses not to see her. But I look at it this way; if they can't empathize with a person in pain, then I haven't lost anything worth having.

It's easy to tell when men want to date you/have sex with you. It's not easy to tell if they actually care about you and usually they don't. With friendships it is more delicate, because you don't know right off the bat what they are looking for and whether or not you might fit into their lives. Women also are more likely to actually care about you as a person than men are, so their standards are going to be different.
I actually adore women and do not have much use for men now that I'm no longer interested in having a partner.

I think I know what you mean about duty friends. Those are people you're friends with not because of shared values or particularly liking each other, but just because you've known them a long time and you feel like you should hold onto the friendship. I think it's okay to recognize if those friendships are not serving either of you well and let them go, albeit do it in a kind and considerate way.

@Thepeopleversuswork My own mother certainly feels that women friends are only there so you have a group to go out with into public places while you wait for men to approach you. Once you’ve bagged your chap, apparently, you do a valedictory round of bridesmaiding, get married and retreat into married life, because the only plausible reason a woman would be going out in the evenings is on a manhunt.

It should be said my mother is 80, is very socially timid, and remains astonished that her daughters, despite being coupled up and/or parents, still abandon the domestic hearth for their friends on a regular basis.

I don't have many. I 'broke up' with my best friend 18 months ago and have a handful of friends from different areas of my life. I used to stress about it but dont so much anymore as actually im quite happy the way i am. I'm 41 and have well missed the boat for lifelong girlfriends 😂 I think I'm just not wired that way 🤷‍♀️. Im not willing to chase friendships or put up with crap, but im also easy going and if someone contacts me 10 years on since we last met I'm happy to pick up where we left off. Life is busy and I'm comfortable with who I am 😊.

Yesterday I got an invitation from a neighbor I hadn't yet met to come over for our dogs to play together. We met on a dog walk and instantly seemed to click. So I'm very pleased about that.

The one thing I don't do is invite people to my house. It sounds weird, but as I have anxiety, my house has always been a refuge from the world outside.
I'm happy to go to other people's homes but I dread having anyone I don't know well over to mine. I wouldn't have the nerve to invite them anyway. It's a big stumbling block when it comes to friendships, but not insurmountable.
Thank you for the advice and for being so kind. 🙂

@SeaweedSundress

Totally. I saw this happen to my mum: she went from being a glamorous, professional woman in her 20s and 30s to basically having no friends because she put all her eggs in the “marriage basket”.

It was honestly disastrous for her mental health and by the end of her life she was bitter and isolated.

One of the most important lessons I want to teach my daughter is to never ever throw away your friends because you think marriage is enough. Even a great marriage will never fulfill all your needs. I would prefer my daughter remain single for life than that she retreat into a closed and isolating marriage.

I agree @Thepeopleversuswork — it’s not as though people hang out a flag when they’re ‘open for friendship’. I’ve got a comparatively busy life, 52, FT job, a 12 year old, a DH who travels a lot for work, ageing parents, an ongoing house renovation, various commitments, and I have a fair few friends who are very important to me, but am always open to meeting new people I like.

I agree too with your point about some people stopping using their social muscles once they ‘settle down’, which I think risks disaster. DH and I are very strong, but our marriage works in part because we both have other sources of fun and support as well as one another. But, while we’ve both kept up with friends from a long time ago (we just got back from holiday with old friends we’ve lived in a different country from since 2000), we’ve had to exercise our social muscles as we’ve moved around a lot. Our last move was international and just before Covid, so I think I’m certainly still figuring stuff out socially here.

@Comedycook

One thing I find tricky about making friends is trying to work out if someone is open to the idea of having a new friend.

I tried to respond to your earlier question about this, I am not sure if you saw it or what you thought of it? But I think the point is that it doesn’t matter if the person is “open to the idea of having a new friend”. That isn’t really a thing.

No one is intrinsically “open” or “closed” to the idea. It’s fluid and it depends on lots of factors including the individual you meet and the circumstances that you find yourself in.

You don’t go into a casual social interaction thinking “I do/don’t want a friend.” You just chat and meet someone and see what happens.

A lot of people seem to be approaching this with the idea that a friendship is a one shot opportunity. It’s not like that. It’s an iterative process with many steps along the way. People don’t tend to have such fixed ideas about what they want from these interactions.

Does that make sense?

With knowing you at all obviously I think you might find this easier if you had a more relaxed approach to this.

I've phased out all of my 'duty friends' over the past few years - people you were friends with once but now only keep in touch with because you've known them so long for an annual catch up. Because all it becomes is an information exchange about each other's lives that you're no longer part of and, tbh, I'm not really interested in that.

See, I don't think of people like that as a 'duty' or burden. I consider people friends that unfortunately we aren't able to see that often due to current life circumstances.
My dc are all adults now, and over the last 15 or so years, since they have been old enough to leave, without having to factor in getting babysitters etc, we've rekindled lots of friendships that were 'on hold' for the 15 years prior to that when life was hectic with jobs, and little children, and money was tight too.
I'm very glad I kept in touch when we didn't see each other a lot and we now meet up more often.

Yes takes alot of effort. I focus on 3 friends now as feel others are just time wasters. As pp said you get tired always being the one to plan things.

Your post made me realise that I too work really hard at maintaining my friendships, which are numerous. It’s not luck that I have a lot of friends - it takes effort!

I text at least 10 different friends over a week, and I’m in a constant WhatsApp conversation with several. Every weekend I will try to meet up with at least 1 friend/set of friends, but will often meet up with 2, especially in summer when everyone is more up for socialising.

@Comedycook oh please don't. I had a lovely though fairly new friend in the pandemic. We kept each other going. Then suddenly she ghosted me for no reason. Became very elusive. I thought it was me!

About a year later she confided in me that her DD has severe depression, and she is fully occupied in sorting her out. Then her mum died as well. She didn't want to talk about her DD's illness out of respect for her.

We still haven't met but we have exchanged messages, and I expect she will return to me when she feels less exhausted with life. I am sure a lot of people are in this situation post the pandemic.

Really, very few of us are awful. We may not be the most fascinating people on earth, but most of us are ok and worthy of friendship.

I can't always tell the difference between a person being busy and a person trying to shake me off.

If they say no, I assume they have a lot going on. I don't assume that I am awful

Oh I totally assume that I'm awful 😂

I don't organise large social events any more either, or have people over much these days ( tired of flakes cancelling last minute). However, I will reach out to people one on one and suggest meeting for a coffee or going to see a play or an exhibition. Sometimes they say yes, sometimes they say no. If they say no, I assume they have a lot going on. I don't assume that I am awful. Most of us aren't awful. It's just that some people may have enough friends.

Having said all that, I will say that sometimes I get tired of making the first move always. My lasting friends are those who reflect my energy. The others drift away.

Yes this is true...I've noticed that those with lots of friends are people with a thick skin. I think you need to be the sort of person who takes rejection on the chin and rolls on. I am not like this...! I never organise social events as I'm terrified of being rejected. My long terms friends know I'm like this but any new friends I have think I'm not making the effort. That's not really the case ..I'm just scared of rejection.

So totally agree. My marriage does not satisfy all my needs. I have many interests that DH does not share. And of course he could leave or die, so I don't want to put all my emotional eggs in one basket.

It also depends on what you call a friend. There are different types of friends. I have friends I can call upon to have coffee and tell them a bit about my day to day life. I have friends with whom I share an interest and can do the above with some of the ones I have got to know better. Several people in the interest group who attend similar events and have become familiar faces and others to socialise with.

However, I lack a really good friend that I can confide all in. Someone who can hold all I have to say. I have a friend who will use me like a sounding board without it being recipricol and I have distanced myself as I feel drained when I come away. This is the type of friend I would most cherish - where we could be authentic and trust each other. Having come close but not successfully found this type of like-minded friend, I am looking at other routes such as entering counselling, where I have someone steady and reliable to talk to (I have a fair bit going on in life and at least can talk and be listened to in a confidential space).

I think ideally, a life partner would be a best friend. I'm not saying you don't benefit from other friends because you absoloutely do and it brings something to a relationship. However, as mentioned up thread - there is so much more involved when chosing and living with a life partner, more interdependency and more expectations of commitment and so on.

Not sure what the answer is op, probably getting out there and meeting a lot of different people but also some of it about luck - being in the right place and so on. And yes, people are often too busy to maintain or develop friendships, this seems really sad.

Why is there a loneliness epidemic in the UK then?

I think the really big challenge is mobility. I am in London where people move away a lot, just as I have befriended them.

I agree with pp that its hard to know who wants to make friends. I have pretty thick skin though and I don't take rejection or ghosting too personally. You have to get used to it and try anyway.

Only on mn. Mn seems to be total introverts, who never go out. In RL all my friends have lots of friends, acquaintances, colleagues, PNG etc.

I have been married over 25 years and find marriage much much harder than making friends. What am I doing wrong?
I don't have to parent, share money, divide housework or have sex with my friends.Just meet them every so often. So much easier.

I don't have lots of friends as I have moved around a lot but I do have some and I have made new friends even in my 50s. I work very hard at it. Almost like a job. DC are grown so I have more time.

I do have friends, but as we all met at school we live all over the country and meetups are rare.

I don't have the confidence, or until recently, the money to join any clubs etc.