Does anyone else not really have any friends?

That’s absolutely true in my experience. On paper, the place where I was so lonely was a perfectly fine idea. In practice, rolling tumbleweeds in terms of friendships. And I was exactly the same self that had never had issues making friends before or since.

I'm not always convinced by that saying wherever you go there you are. Sometimes a place can be the wrong place for you.

Don’t bow out of the whole friendship thing, @EmeraldRoulette — I do know exactly what it’s like when you start to doubt yourself. I had that very lonely period of years when, despite doing all the right things, no one wanted to be my friend. Looking back, it was just an environment where the kind of person who would value someone like me just didn’t crop up, but I did feel like a leper. For years.

Fortunately, things were immediately much better after we moved, despite being just before Covid. In fact that says a lot, doesn’t it, that I immediately encountered more friendliness, despite a global pandemic getting in the way?

I've also lost friends to "busyness" Emerald roulette. It's not your fault but I think it can make you start to doubt yourself when it happens. It takes a real toll on you when you keep trying things and nothing seems to work.

@MidYearDiary ”I wouldn't necessarily write off the friends who dropped out of sight during Covid -- it may be that they are trying to get back on the social saddle and would welcome a proposed coffee?”

no, they have been extremely clear that they “don’t have time” for that and they adored lockdown.

I almost didn’t post here as it’s so depressing to think about it all (I’ve posted extensively on MN about this). So I am sorry if I misinterpreted your post. I have tried literally everything and as other posters have said, you become damaged and strange so that probably colours my interpretation of posts. I’ll bow out now.

Why would I be blaming you for anything? All I know is what you said in your post. I'm sorry that you feel self-conscious about trying to make friends.

I've made some new friends doing a regular beach litterpick recently, and I'm also planning to join a cinema club in my city, which shows arthouse films with a glass of wine and a chance for discussion afterwards. Another thing I don't currently have time for, but which sounds great, is a local community arts project that does a annual Halloween parade looking for volunteers to help make costumes and floats.

I wouldn't necessarily write off the friends who dropped out of sight during Covid -- it may be that they are trying to get back on the social saddle and would welcome a proposed coffee?

@MidYearDiary I really apologise if I am being thick or if I am being too polarised in my thinking. I can’t tell if you are blaming me for my situation or sympathising with me 😂

If the prevailing culture is that people find friends unimportant, I don’t think there’s any point trying to fight it.

Obviously, one person can only see things from one perspective.

But my perspective is that if social media is any barometer, people say that they’re lonely, it gets discussed a lot, but they don’t really want company unless it’s finding a partner and having children.

@EmeraldRoulette, but I don't think the prevailing culture is that 'people find friends important' -- judging by the regularity of threads about loneliness and longing for friendships on Mn, often from people who are married/in a relationship, and some of whom have children, it's very much a live issue. And one that doesn't appear to be solved by being married with children, either.

I do think Covid caused a proportion of people to stop using their social muscle, and some of them drifted out of existing friendships and friendship networks, and then never went back to working that muscle back to full fitness because it felt too hard, as with any kind of unfitness you start to tackle.

And of course there are all kinds of other contributory factors, some of them no fault of the lonely person. Sometimes a person is a poor fit for their environment. If I'd stayed living in one particular spot where I (despite being socially confident) never made friends in all the time I lived there and did all the usual things that have worked well in other places, I would have been lonely. People with chronic mental or physical health conditions can struggle with friendships.

Having said that, two of my friends whom I think are best of anyone I knew at seeking out and maintaining friendships are lifelong single and childfree, and both have had complex longterm illnesses.

I'm not sure that 'helping unquestioningly in dire need' is actually very useful as a test of friendship (because most of the time, most people are not in dire need and require different things from friendships -- what would be the point of someone whose company you didn't enjoy, but whom you knew would drive you to A and E at 3 am if needed?), but, even if it were, those friendships don't emerge out of the blue. suddenly, when you're in need! They've been built up gradually, over time, and once upon a time they were just recent, casual acquaintances.

I met two women on the first day of my MA in the late 90s. One I immediately warmed to, the other didn't particularly appeal to me, as I found her blunt and confrontational. Guess which one I've just come back from holiday with, and whose children are my godchildren, and to whom I've always remained close all these years on, after many moves on both our parts? You can't always tell which acquaintances will become friends, and which friends will stick.

My perspective is a bit different. My parents both worked and both thought that spending time with friends was really important. My mum is now in her 80s.

There’s a very negative vibe “out there” and a tendency for people to spend a huge amount of time doom scrolling and she is picking up on that too. I have never talked to her about it. She raised it independently.

I have actually had a teenager say to me that to some extent the Internet has replaced friendships.

@WhatNoRaisins “I think it's a bit of a spiral, less people seek real life connection, the options get poorer, more people give up on seeking real life connections after finding the opportunities are actually really limited.“

that’s definitely happening to me and the local community centre have said that no one attends anything anymore, so most of what they run has closed down.

The managers are looking for other jobs because it’s a matter of time before someone turns it into flats. I moved here last year but they tell me this is a direct effect of lockdown, in their view.

I haven’t been on this thread from the beginning so I haven’t read all of it.

I definitely struggle because people I thought were really good friends disappeared into their little family in lockdown and didn’t come out.

I can only assume that’s what they always wanted.

I am now in a position where I feel self-conscious trying to meet people.

Definitely lacking in confidence to do it now and also wondering if all that happens if I try is - well, nothing.

If the prevailing culture is that people find friends unimportant, I don’t think there’s any point trying to fight it.

Obviously, one person can only see things from one perspective.

But my perspective is that if social media is any barometer, people say that they’re lonely, it gets discussed a lot, but they don’t really want company unless it’s finding a partner and having children.

On the flipside, the people who told me I would end up very alone if I didn’t want a partner and or children may feel that they were proved right.

but mum has had a couple of stays in a care home, and a few hospital stays - and it didn’t look like many children were visiting their parents.

I think that you can criticise a trend like people ditching all their friends after starting a family without blaming the individuals.

I thought the definition of a true friend was someone who you could turn to when you were in dire need and they would help you without question, regardless of where or when. A lot of people I know say they have endless friends but in reality they have met them maybe only once. They are just casual acquaintances.

On that basis I have no friends. It doesn't bother me.

Yes op its difficult. I met a few through kids sports. People so busy now or cancel at last minute. Puts you off doing things. Ive few school mam friends too

OP states she doesn’t have many friends and is probably looking for some support then gets lots of replies from smug people implying they are better than her because they do have friends.

Lots of posters blaming putting all of her eggs in the marriage basket when OP didn’t even say she was married.

And this is why a lot of women are rubbish friends and best avoided.
I’ve had this time and time again from women in my life, where they like nothing better than tearing other women down and chucking a bit of salt in the wound.

Introversion being fetishised - I’ve heard it all now 😂, and of course covid HAS to be blamed for everything. People can’t just be different. 🙄.

If someone has a lot of mental health stuff going on it's really difficult to reach out to people. Then over the years it kind of just builds, the negative self talk gets worse and you lose opportunities to practise social skills, which you can then become very self conscious about, which then perpetuates the cycle of not feeling like you can socialise effectively... vicious circle really, and the longer it continues the worse it gets.

Trauma can make you fearful of social situations too if it involved mistreatment by other people when you were a child and/or at the important stages of social development as a teen.

It's totally the responsibility of someone as an adult to work on themselves and improve their situation, however I think it's important to recognise that there can often be a lot of sad history to someone's circumstances. A little empathy and attempts at understanding can go a long way in helping people to help themselves.

🤨

Maybe the meaning is creeping a bit. In my mind introvert means preferring your own company (introspective approach) and extrovert means preferring external company. Neither is exclusive of having downtime alone / being in situations with others.

With this in mind, my own experience is that time spent alone feels like pleasure and it’s a relief when I leave / the people leave. I am returning to my preferred state of introspection and I found it hard work / unpleasant when the people were there. In my case, friendlessness is a product of my introversion because I deliberately avoid situations where there are other people as much as possible in order to spend as much time as possible in the preferred state of solitude. And post-pandemic I am no longer afraid to say this aloud and be frank about it.

The analogy I use to describe being an introvert is that I like being social but also need time alone to recharge in the way someone who loves running can't run forever, they also need some rest time so they can run again later.

I think some people see introversion and misanthropy as the same thing and they aren't.

But it’s not about ‘hearing more from introverts’, it’s people misunderstanding introversion and mis-labelling themselves via a kind of social ‘creep’. An introvert is not by definition shy, socially awkward, friendless, or someone who struggles with friendships — an introvert might be all those things, but they’re not because he or she is an introvert.

I also cannot agree that hearing more from introverts post-pandemic is “fetishisation”.

For me, as a genuine friendless introvert, lockdown was a form of validation. Suddenly everyone had to live like me, and my god they didn’t half bitch about it. I on the other hand LOVED lockdown, because all demands to be present at things were dropped, to my great relief and delight. Felt like it was finally “my turn”, to have the world come to me and not being constantly forced to bring myself into the world.

And that experience made me less afraid to admit I’m introverted, it made me more able to say “no” to things without using excuses - I will now happily and openly say “I’m just not into social situations or very good at them, and so I won’t come to your bbq.”

And it’s a relief. No more faking it, no more pretence, just be who I really am.

True, it's not laughing it's sneering.

The not being open to new friends thing isn't just about person to person rejection, it affects the bigger picture. I think it makes the wider opportunities for social connection less.

For example when I was friendless the message was to join things. There was this attitude that the opportunities were endless and the world my oyster. In reality I was shocked to find there was only one meetup group in my not a city but not rural town. It covered a really wide area and as I didn't drive it wasn't much use to me. Even if I was driving at that time I didn't see how I could ask someone if they fancied a casual coffee when they didn't live anywhere near me.

I think it's a bit of a spiral, less people seek real life connection, the options get poorer, more people give up on seeking real life connections after finding the opportunities are actually really limited.

And NowImNotDoingIt I don't see anyone laughing at people without friends.

What a load of patronising bollocks. Can your high horse hold you and your myriad of friends?

Laughing at women who have no/very few friends and "small" lives doesn't make you enlightened or a feminist.

Assuming most of it is self inflicted is akin to what was she wearing and how much did she have to drink. Shit happens. Just because it didn't happen to you doesn't mean it doesn't exist. Being smug about it is not a good look.

Maybe they would yes. To be fair to men I think the “my little family” thing is mainly self inflicted. There are plenty of controlling and bullying men but few of them require their wives to be at home all weekend.

And as you say neither being an introvert or being busy means you can’t have friends outside the family.

I'm no historian but these women of the past, while being very tied to their families and not having the same opportunities as many modern women, surely most of them would have had the companionship at least of other women around them.

I agree it's fetishisation of introversion and I've definitely seen more of that since 2020. We also fetishize being busy.