Does anyone else not really have any friends?

Well @WhatNoRaisins I have distanced myself from friends who don't match my effort. It doesn't have to be an exact match- I am also used to initiating-but at least we need to be on the same page.

I'm still not sure how I want to handle these sorts of friends. I can live with always being the one who initiates but when you keep asking again and again it starts to feel humiliating.

I don't think they dislike me, especially as it's not like they are meeting with others instead. I'm taking them at their word that they are too busy. It's just after a while I'm questioning what the point is, I think when you go too long without making an effort the relationship starts to wither. Even if they do later find the time for me is there going to be anything left?

I don't have a single friend. I used to have friends but all DC have SEN and this left me very isolated I suppose. I work a few hours when the DC are in school and care the rest of the time so it's impossible to socialise.

Most women I know seem to have friends. I don't think being friendless is the norm.

I have gone low contact with a couple of friends who persistently refuse to meet, even for a coffee, and are always too busy. However, I haven't assumed they don't like me. I just think some people prefer social media friendships and have no inclination to meet, especially post pandemic.

It's interesting. I'd have assumed the friend was upset with me or no longer liked me for some reason. I'd probably not contact them again unless they contacted me first....if they contacted me again first I'd then assume all was fine.

Yes, I never assume that I am pathetic or unlikeable. That way madness lies.
I always assume that the person is busy, skint or just doesn't want to see that particular play. It's better for my mental health.

But also, @CharlotteRumpling — you didn’t interpret the initial ‘no’ as some kind of indication you were a terrible, unlikeable person, or a pathetic no-hoper for asking, rather than an indication that person wasn’t free or didn’t want to see the play. You just asked someone else. And would have gone to see the play alone if no one else was interested in seeing it, without thinking that made you a tragic Billy-no-mates.

Yes, absolutely. And a couch potato is going to be left wheezing, aching and absolutely exhausted by the first week of Couch to 5 K, just as someone who’s let their social fitness go for years will be drained and probably be made to feel uncomfortable, maybe horribly uncomfortable, at their first coffee morning or night class.

Both may go home thinking ‘Well, not doing that again!’

And that discomfort and exhaustion will be the same whether or not illness, difficult circumstances, agoraphobia, lockdowns etc etc or just disinclination was what caused the lack of fitness or social fitness.

But the discomfort isn’t a reason not to try to retrain your social muscle, just as we know that some basic level of physical fitness is needed for health, even when an illness or disability makes exercising very hard. Regardless of whether or not we’re perfectly happy with no other person in our lives, or never getting off the sofa, our mental and physical health is better with some form of social and physical exercise, however minimal.

The thread has moved on so apologies if I have missed what has been said, but this week I messaged a friend and asked if she might be interested in seeing a play. She said no. I assumed she was busy and it was too much of a trek, not that I am horrible. I then messaged another friend. She said yes.
If she hadn't, I would have gone alone.

My point is one does have to exercise the muscle and make the effort.

I've always made friends easily, but I've realised I'm not great at maintaining friendships anymore.
My job is great but very full on and 'peopley', and I have 2 kids with SEN so my plate feels pretty full. I always think 'I must message X or give them a call' and I genuinely have every intention of doing so, but then the thought gets pushed out of my head by all the other things I need to remember, then when that person messages or calls me I feel bad that they're always the one to make contact. I always enjoy going out and socialising with friends once I'm actually there, but getting there can seem like a monumental effort sometimes and I really value time to myself, or just with DH.

What women expect of their friends seems to vary wildly and I've definitely let friendships drift when it's become apparent that the other person expected a level of time and communication that I couldn't deliver. In my early twenties I had a big group of friends and we all lived in each others pockets basically. We saw each other most days and we were in constant communication. That's not something I could sustain now. My friendships that have survived are the low maintenance ones with friends who, like me, have busy lives so there's no expectation to reply to messages straight away and be available all the time. We might not see each other for weeks or even months at a time but when we do get together it's like no time has passed.

That is exactly whst I am like. I saw it described as being a non-shy introvert. Being amongst people holds no fears for me, I can talk to anyone, love other people's company and especially my friends but time alone to replenish is sacrosanct.

That is what being an introvert means though. It’s nothing to do with “hating people” or “having no friends” or “wanting to be with my little family”.

It’s maddening that it’s been co-opted by people who are terrified of social interaction and can’t bear to leave their own homes.

And are you me? I'm in a similar set up with my kids, and you've described perfectly how I operate. I like meeting people, I'm friendly, happy, chatty, give everyone a chance, say hello to strangers etc but there are times I'm just so happy to shut the door and be on my own.

I also agree with the muscle analogy. My own parents genuinely do seem happy with minimal social contact now but I think it's similar to how an extreme couch potato feels perfectly happy with minimal physical activity. The health implications of not having these things are still going to be there whether you're happy without them or not.

Are you me? That is exactly whst I am like. I saw it described as being a non-shy introvert. Being amongst people holds no fears for me, I can talk to anyone, love other people's company and especially my friends but time alone to replenish is sacrosanct. If I thought I couldn't get decent chunks of it then that WOULD make me anxious and unhappy. I am separated for 8 years, have my children half the time and to be honest,vthat set up probably suits me pretty well. I would never live with a man again.

Even if you are an actual introvert as opposed to someone using this as a cover story to be antisocial (which is the vast majority of people in my experience) you still need relationships. You still need some social contact and the ability to use that contact in a positive way.

It’s turned into this sort of social cachet to prove how much of an introvert you are, a bit like celebrating your counterculture credentials in the 60s. It’s just another trend which will pass when people wake up and realise it’s not so much fun to have no friends.

The trouble is it’s the people who desperately need friends who are influenced by this crap.

Exactly. I’m at base an introvert, but a sociable one. I’m socially confident, have longterm friendships, my friends are very important to me, I’m good at arriving somewhere new and figuring out how to encounter the kind of people I like, my friends enrich my life and I definitely need social interaction, BUT being around others, while I enjoy it, does drain rather than energise me, and I need lots of solitary time to recharge again.

Introverts can of course be shy and socially awkward, but they don’t have to be.

I’m just in the middle of reading Friendaholic by Elizabeth Day and how we all approach friendship differently. She talks about her own experience of some amazing friends and some not so great ‘frenemies’ over the years. Also, how some people are quite happy with just one or two close pals, whereas she felt societal pressure to have loads - and that didn’t always work out well for her. I did wonder if any of these individuals recognised themselves as some fairly outing details!

@NowImNotDoingIt

Assuming most of it is self inflicted is akin to what was she wearing and how much did she have to drink. Shit happens. Just because it didn't happen to you doesn't mean it doesn't exist. Being smug about it is not a good look.

Not sure if this is aimed at me?

Look clearly it’s not all self inflicted. Some people genuinely struggle with social stuff and others have had circumstancial factors. Life gets in the way.

But I don’t think it’s smug to point out that there’s an obvious correlation between people who celebrate the withdrawal into the family and the people who lament the fact they have no friends.

I also think, as I have said here many times, the celebration of the retreat into isolation which flies under the fig leaf of “being an introvert” is profoundly toxic and actually quite dangerous.

You can’t avoid the loss of friendships altogether and you can’t force people to like you. But you do need to keep the “social muscle”. You need to maintain at least the outlook that allows you to conceive that it’s possible to make friends. And this celebration of “introversion” (not actually introversion at all but misanthropy and anxiety) acts as a brake which prevents people keeping this social muscle alive. And we really need to call it out as the dangerous rubbish it is.

I suppose we usually talk about draining energy in a very negative way. It can be neutral, spending time with others is energy draining but I'm perfectly happy to use some of my energy to spend time in good company. Neither an isolated life nor a life where I'm never alone would suit.

i always thought that was what introvert and extrovert meant, but I learnt on one of these self-awareness management course things that it is slightly different.
If I recall correctly, it is more about getting and taking energy. So for example, extroverts are energised by other people’s company, whereas for introverts, other people’s company is draining.
So I thought I was an introvert because I don’t have multiple friends and social occasions and generally feel like I don’t fit in, so to speak, but I went into this course early and started chatting away. When we did the personality test thing, I came out as extrovert, which the facilitator said was not surprising because I had started interacting right away.
Reflecting on this, being around or with other people is just much better for me mentally. And yet, I am a single parent and I work full-time, so it has been very difficult to sustain a social or non-work/non-children-related life for myself and the pandemic just knocked things on the head completely. And it is a bit of a viscous (sp?) circle because when I am actually out, aside from with close friends of which I have a couple, I feel a bit awkward because people have families and friends and functioning marriages and plans and I am like 🤷🏻‍♀️what do I contribute here to this conversation? So I come across as more introverted sometimes.

Yeah, I agree with this. I regret staying in the town I live in for so long. Will move when I retire to meet different people but keep in touch with the few friends that I have

Nope I'm South East UK and permanently single if anyone wants to PM me.
I like cinema and theatre..

Same @Multicolouredstars . Well, I'm much older than you, but I have friends in their 90s and friends in their 20s. I have friends who are like me and friends where the only thing we have in common is the thing we do together. I am never closed to being friendly, and never closed to the idea of going along to something (except where it is the odd thing that I have already tried and really not liked).
I think if you rely on one part of your life for friendships, then when that part of your life changes, you tend to drift away from that group of friends. From when your dc are at school, I think it is hugely important that they do something (or things) outside of school, where they meet up with different dc. It makes all friendships less intense as no-one is relying on 1 person, or one small group of people to meet all their needs, so therefore isn't upset to hear Friend A went out with friend B but didn't ask you (as you see so often on MN, where people make it an issue).

What is a girl's bottomless brunch? I can't help but imagine it's women eating brunch in their panties, but if course that can't be right. Does it mean a drunk brunch, as in a bottomless glass? If so I would hate it too, but not because of the sex of the company.

You really couldn't think of anything worse than going out with a group who are all women? Surely that's hyperbole. I'm curious as to what exactly men bring to the table that makes it better. Perhaps you like talking about sports? In my experience that covers roughly 50% of most men's conversation, with about 30% being sniggering childishly about sex (and how hot this or that woman is) and only 20% about current events and other topics. There are, of course, a lot of exceptions, but that's the average male age 18-60. After 60 the sex talk nosedives and the sports talk is often about golf. 🥱

I’m in my mid thirties and I’ve got friends who are the same age but also much older than me. I go for days/evenings out with women and men in their 50s, 60s and 70s. Due to my volunteering and attending support groups for people with MH issues I’ve met a wide variety of people. I recently went to a 70th birthday party and except one other person, I was the youngest one there. Doesn’t bother me though, I enjoy their company and we all have a laugh.