Does anyone else not really have any friends?

I don’t think there’s a clear distinction between “ordinary social niceness” and “wanting to be a friend”.

I think this is part of the problem: a lot of people go into these interactions expecting a binary outcome: that someone will immediately become a friend or that they won’t. Most of the time the person you are meeting won’t know in the moment whether they want “social niceness” or friendship.

Its not as black and white as this. Proper friendships can take years to build. You are unlikely to know overnight. The trick is to just go with it and enjoy it in the moment.

Worst case scenario you get to spend time meeting someone new. If they don’t become a lifetime friend you have not lost anything. But you won’t make friends at all if you don’t meet people.

But what are the signs of another woman wanting to be your friend? I know the signs when a man is interested in a romantic relationship....but I don't get it with women. Most women are pleasant and polite...how do you know it's not just ordinary social niceties or someone who wants to be friends with you?

@SeaweedSundress

Based on my own (distant) dating days, men on a date could be looking for anything from someone to marry and have children with to an ONS, an ego boost date after someone else turned them down, a rebound shag, a post-divorce ‘transitional’ relationship to wean them off their ex, a beard to cover up the fact they’re gay from themselves, an emergency date for their friend’s wedding, someone undemanding to spend a few weeks with before they emigrate etc etc

I completely agree. I found the intentions of men I dated far more obtuse and hard to read than potential women friends.

The thing that I find very striking about these threads (and I genuinely mean this without judgement or smugness), is that a lot of people are more comfortable with pair bonding than they are with friendship bonding.

It makes me wonder why, despite feminism and the huge evidence of the benefits friendships bring, a generation of women still feels more at ease with the idea of building a relationship with a (usually male) significant other than with platonic friends.

There are obviously other factors at play: anxiety, tiredness and lack of time etc. But there undeniably seems to be an emotional “template” which a lot of women have that says, consciously or otherwise, that a relationship with a significant other is safer or more rewarding than one with female friends.

I am obviously a bit of an anomaly here because I really don’t feel like this. Its odd to me because I am not wired this way and given the choice I would always take a small handful of close friends over a bIoke but I also think it’s a bit dangerous.

Because while a close and nurturing pair bonded relationship is obviously a great thing it should never, for anyone, be the be all and end all. Nearly half of all marriages break down, and even when they don’t, the capacity for loneliness and isolation within a marriage is huge.

I wonder why so many people feel like this and whether the epidemic of female loneliness we see is connected to this.

Yes but in terms of confidence i would say, when I was single , I had much more confidence in myself as a potential mate rather than as a potential friend.

Based on my own (distant) dating days, men on a date could be looking for anything from someone to marry and have children with to an ONS, an ego boost date after someone else turned them down, a rebound shag, a post-divorce ‘transitional’ relationship to wean them off their ex, a beard to cover up the fact they’re gay from themselves, an emergency date for their friend’s wedding, someone undemanding to spend a few weeks with before they emigrate etc etc.

If it was inevitably an easier situation to read the Relationships board wouldn’t be crammed with women agonising over why messaging has slowed down, why he never got in touch against after they had sex etc.

I can’t decide if I like it or not. On the one hand it would feel like yet more demands on my time and bothersome people to have to now add to my life.

On the other hand you only get so much out of say biking or skiing with the kids, they’re not gonna beast themselves down some hideously gnarly trail, so having someone to do spicier shit with could be fun.

I hate it. I am so lonely. I used to have friends.

I absolutely hate my life.

Yes but I'd have no idea what people are looking for in potential friends. I generally know what most men are looking for in women..not all obviously but it's an easier situation to read.

I have a small group of friends I've known for most of my life and we meet up about every 6 weeks and travel around once a year together.

I'm going out tonight with friends from a hobby group. There are 10 of us in total. I only joined 18 months ago and genuinely ate good friends with them all. It's a good way to meet new people.

But literally the only thing you know about a man who has agreed to go on a date with you is that he’s agreed to go on a date with you.

If you go along to, say, a Meet Up group, you’ll know everyone there, of either sex, is open to new friendships.

You don’t at all come across as ‘untethered or flaky’. You do, however, sound like someone who has very specific ideas about what the ‘right’ friendship looks like — ‘deep’ and involving you taking it in turns to ‘take care of each other in the trenches”, but not too time-consuming at the foundation stage, and in any case you say you don’t have time to ‘grow and take care of’ a new friendship now.

Obviously you’re not wrong to want what you want, but think these beliefs are limiting you.

For a start, that’s a lot to put on one friendship, especially one you’re growing from scratch. In my experience, you get support from different friends and acquaintances at different times, which means there’s always someone, and you’re not putting undue pressure on one friend to be your sole ‘ride or die’ person. For another thing, in order to get one or two friends who will (eventually) be there for you through everything, it’s a numbers game to begin with, like dating. You need to expose yourself to a lot of acquaintances, some of whom may become friends, some of whom may become very close longterm friends. Putting all your eggs in one friendship basket isn’t a good idea, especially at the outset.

And bluntly, good friendships take time to develop. You say you’re exhausted from young children and haven’t the energy now to nurture a friendship, which I get, but I think you should try to think of something you will genuinely enjoy for its own sake, and that will expose you regularly to a bunch of different people. And you should do that now, once a week as a minimum, as a break from your kids. That way, by the time you have the energy to invest in ‘growing’ a friendship, you may have some potential candidates in mind.

I’m a sociable introvert, whose friendships are important to me, but I’ve never got, or tried to get, to the stage where I can ‘recharge’ with even my closest friends. Friends for me are for stimulation. I recharge alone, and o need a lot of alone time. That hasn’t stopped me having close, longtime friendships.

Though I should say that life hasn't helpfully put one of us in the trenches and one of us untrammelled and able to help, at appropriate times. One of my closest friends was hospitalised for a severe eating disorder during Covid, and I got a cancer diagnosis literally while I was on my way (three hour train journey) to sit under her window which was the closest could get to visiting. I needed to seek support from a different friend in that scenario. My hospitalised friend hadn’t got the bandwidth.

TL; DR. Don’t restrict yourself too much.

I don’t think women are all looking for the same things in friendship though

Yes exactly! This is what makes it difficult. Also if you go on a date with a man you know he's interested in some sort of relationship. If I randomly meet another woman I get on with I have no idea if she's interested in forming a friendship. I find lots of women are hugely stretched in terms of time with work, family commitments etc and don't have time for new friends.

@Comedycook

In terms of female friendships I generally have no idea what other women are looking for in a friend.

I don’t think women are all looking for the same things in friendship though… I have different friends for different “needs” if that makes sense.

Some are great for long discussions and putting the world to rights, some are good fun on a night out, others are dependable, some I have shared interests with. It’s not a magic formula.

Its chemistry really at the heart of it. You either click with someone or you don’t. Not a million miles away from finding a romantic relationship but without the sex. If you found it easy to find a mate it shouldn’t be that hard to find a friend, surely?

I’m not minimising what you are saying but I can’t see why the two are so different.

well, yes, I meant to be rude in that I thought your statement was ridiculous. Which I stand by.
If you can possibly justify it I'd be very interested in hearing your explanation.
It was as if someone posted 'I wish I had a dog, does anyone on here have a dog as a pet?' and you'd responded. 'No, people only have pets on TV, not in real life.'

I would never post anything 'rude' in terms of implying anything about anyone who does/doesn't have friends, because I've been in that situation and can see (as other posts) it can feel like putting the boot in further. So my post was entirely neutral in that sense, but I don't see anything wrong in calling out utter nonsense.

If you'd said 'I think people are lead by TV and film into thinking everyone has a very close circle of friends that they spend a lot of time with, but that's probably not the case for everyone in real life,' that would have been fine. But you basically said groups of female friends are entirely fictitious, which is completely, demonstrably, untrue.
And to be honest, is quite insulting to people who do have close friendships, because it's suggesting they are not real and all involved are faking it and don't really like each other at all, but just spend time together out of - what? Insecurity? Obligation? Just using one another? Which is a really nasty thing to imply.

Just because some people don't have friends, doesn't mean nobody does and they are some Hollywood fiction made up by studio execs. Apart from anything else, if groups of friends were completely unheard of, then nobody would ever feel unusual or left out for not having them, because it would be the norm! Every lonely person is aware that other (real life!) people do seem to have close friends because that's what they are comparing themselves against.

I feel I shouldn't have to point this out but reading comprehension on MN is getting lower by the day - as a fellow introvert I am not saying that all people without friends are lonely - many people (like me) are very happy without lots of social interaction. But for those who do want/feel like they should have more friends it's because they are comparing themselves against others, not because they are making something up that doesn't exist

Yes it's interesting isn't it. I suppose in terms of men and dating, I kind of understood what a lot of men wanted. In terms of female friendships I generally have no idea what other women are looking for in a friend.

@Comedycook

I haven't been single for a long time but I never found dates difficult...i think chatting to a random man in a bar is much easier than trying to chat to a random woman in the hope of making a friend. I guess with romantic relationships the signs are clearer and easier to understand

This is fascinating. I feel the exact opposite. I haven’t been single for a while either but I found dating unbearably stressful, but don’t find chatting to potential friends difficult at all.

I thought most people felt as I did until I came on here. I find it fascinating (and slightly shocking) how many people seem to find the prospect of making friends so difficult.

No judgement, everyone is different. It just makes no sense to me.

Yes this is it. I can tell if a man likes me and is interested. I have no idea if I'm chatting to another woman if she likes my company or not. Maybe she's being polite. Also when I was young and single (not now I'm old and fat!) I knew I was quite pretty. I knew a lot of men found me attractive. I do not have confidence though to feel that someone would want to be friends with me.

I have a problem with being friends with someone just to count them as a friend. The world is filled with people who want to monologue at me; one came around yesterday and spent 2hr talking at me, actually being affronted when I questioned any view point. Many such cases.

Similarly, I don’t like gossips, another classic of the friend genre, as in my experience they leverage any information from me to use as gossip currency with others.
Given these options, yes, I would rather have fewer or even no friends.

I agree that it is easier to find a partner than friends if you are socially anxious. At least I know my partner likes me otherwise he wouldn’t be with me but I never can tell with other people

I do now but never used to. I had work mates and 1 other friend.

However I've met friends when dcs at school and although some of my dcs are now adults us mums remained friends.
I have dcs in primary now but as an ' older mum' I haven't made friend's , as in we would socialise , but would chat at gate or at parties

Honestly I'd rather go on a first date any day than make small talk at a kids party with other mums!

I haven't been single for a long time but I never found dates difficult...i think chatting to a random man in a bar is much easier than trying to chat to a random woman in the hope of making a friend. I guess with romantic relationships the signs are clearer and easier to understand.

@Comedycook

I have to disagree with this...I think it's far easier to find a romantic partner than it is to find friends.

Can you explain this to me? I have seen other people say this on here too and I find it baffling. Not in a head tilting Mumsnet way I genuinely find it completely bizarre.

Going on a date is one of the most stressful things most people can experience: it’s up there with exams or moving house.

Having a coffe or a pint with someone without there being any romantic intention is a walk in the park compared to this.

I find it absolutely bizarre that so many people who have put themselves through the white knuckle ride of dating can be nervous about having a chat with another woman. What is that about?

I'd like more friends but I could never in a million years send someone a message asking if they want to meet for a coffee or lunch....hence why any new friendships have fallen by the wayside pretty quickly. I'm terrified I'll ask someone to meet up and they'll say no

No friends here. I did have some growing up but moved away then had children young in a very rural area. Self employed wfh. So my chances of making them organically are very low. I'm also a introvert so I need massive amounts of time alone to recharge untill I'm comfortable with someone then I can recharge whilst in their company. My children however much I love them dearly drain the very soul out of me at their young ages.

I don't have the capacity or energy currently to grow and take care of a new friendship. I need a friendship that is comfortable and we take turns in caring for eachother whilst we are in the trenches of whatever hardship of life we are currently in.

I did try baby groups and even paid for a nct course which got cancelled in my area. I knew motherhood particularly was going to be isolating and hard without friendship. I've tried the peanut app too. Hobbies the gym all sorts.

I think I'm looking for a real low key friend but one that's happy to chat for a good solid time to try and build that foundation but without too much time/ energy investment. It's really difficult to transfer that into a really deep friendship. I understand I could come across unbothered or flaky.

One day I will have more energy. But for now I'm just surviving.