Has the left now met the right, shaken hands with it then stuck 2 fingers up at the general population?

Your link includes conditions which are specific to either males or females, like Klinefelters (which occurs in males).

Are men with Klinefelters in some way not male?

I'm not being snarky but I'm honestly not clear what your argument is about DSDs.

(Completely outside of the trans argument, obviously - I'm talking about sex, not gender).

“Being incorrectly sexed at birth (which is what I said in the original post on this topic) does happen”

That does not make them ‘trans’ of course. Of those with DSDs, it has been found that the incidence of having a transgender identity is similar as to the rest of the population.

A male person who was incorrectly registered as female at birth but now is living as a male person has not transitioned. They have chosen to live as their genotypical and likely phenotypical sex. They might choose any one of the other 130+ gender identities. But that move from incorrect registration of female to male is not them adopting a transgender identity as such.

Just checked, it’s one in 4,500 babies in the uk

Honestly I’m not sure why you’re making that the linchpin of your argument, as it’s very unusual and really not relevant. In the uk, the chances of anyone being raised as the wrong sex as a result of DSD are very slim.

Firstly, I think you have your maths wrong.

Secondly, no this figure does not refer to the simply DSD you are talking about. There are a number of DSDs where there is a degree of ambiguity about sexual organs at birth - that's what the 0.018% refers to. In the vast majority of those cases, this is easily diagnosed and clarified. The specific disorder you are talking about is much, much rarer than that.

no. 9 in 50,000 births that may require further investigation to ascertain the correct sex category. Still, they are male or female by genotype. And a fraction of those might not experience any virilisation at puberty if they are male.

I'll go by the NHS definition thank you. They don't seem to mention foreskin issues in their description. Todays Dr's have far more access to diagnostic tools that obviously weren't available 10 or 20 plus years ago. Being incorrectly sexed at birth (which is what I said in the original post on this topic) does happen.

Of course it is rare but not incredibly so. The percentage you quote as a fraction is 18 out of 1000. So in a town of say 50,000 people. There will be 90 with just that particular DSD.

You really need to do research on this before posting so confidently.

The true figure is 0.018%

https://www.realityslaststand.com/p/intersex-is-not-as-common-as-red?utm_campaign=post&utm_medium=web

It means that as an infant, the person was likely incorrectly identified as female.

The presence of testes is the only important body part for the correct sexing of that person.

It means the person deserves empathy but it is also important to correctly state their situation. Particularly if they went through male puberty because they had testes and processed testosterone.

They were not a ‘female to male’ trans person. They were a male person incorrectly registered as a female person.

It means a complex and rare DSD.

But the presence of a womb does not make someone female. A body set up to produce eggs does.

Nope. This is extremely misleading.

The specific condition you're describing is incredibly rare. The 1.7% refers to a wide range of DSDs, the vast majority of which there is absolutely zero ambiguity around what sex people are and definitely no 'mixed sex organs'

1.7 includes women with PCOS much to their disgust and men with tiny differences like a wonky foreskin or a hypospadius - things that need no treatment at all.

DSDs proper are rare. Despite how often they seem to appear in athletes.

So the presence of a womb and no external genitalia meant nothing?

1.7% of population worldwide born with intersex traits. Hardly rare.

The presence of testes means that person is male. They were incorrectly registered as female at birth.

If their body progressed the testosterone produced by their testes, they would have gone through normal male puberty.

So the NHS are saying it all wrong? Would it not be fair to say that if you are eg born with a womb and internal testes, you have both male and female sex organs

Which DSD is that?

This is basically an edge case of an edge case. Ridiculously rare. But still clear that even here, the body is only set up to make one kind of gamete.

@EasternStandard I mean it isn't unreasonable to have male only sports clubs. Male only gentlemens clubs. Male only support groups. In the same way that female only versions of anything like this would be entirely reasonable.

@AlisonDonut

I'm confident I have spoken out against this more than once previously in this thread. I disagree entirely with a man calling himself female and entering sports as female. This is something the majority of men and women feel.

So the NHS are saying it all wrong? Would it not be fair to say that if you are eg born with a womb and internal testes, you have both male and female sex organs?

That is exactly the scenario the female to male trans person I knew of had. The decision was made by her parents and dr's to bring christen and bring her up female. And like I said in that post, I can understand her now him feeling in the wrong body.

Have a guess what happened when they opened up a non binary competition?

Your argument is very muddled but where do you mean re reasonable male only places?

That's fine. Women would have single sex spaces in this situation.

Even people with differences of sex development can reliably to categorised, using modern technology, into male and female. That is based on whether the body is formed around the production of large gametes or small, and it doesn’t matter whether that body produces those gametes or not. The only body parts that matter for this are ovaries or testes, whether fully formed or not.

That's the GC position. Has been for years.

Intersex is very much a condition. It is when a child is born with a mixture of male/female sex organs or mixed up chromosomes

This is not true. All DSDs are one sex or the other. It is not accurate to talk about a 'mixture' of sex organs.