To expect better from nursery?

I understand why you're upset, it's horrible when they're so sore 😔 but I think when you said that you hadn't needed to talk with her about asking for help because it hadn't been a problem previously- to be fair, that also applies to the staff if this is the first time this has happened. If she normally goes to the toilet independently and it isn't usually an issue, it's fair enough that they wouldn't realise that things had gone wrong on this occasion unless she said something or was visibly dirty/really smelled strongly of poo. Now you've made them aware, hopefully they'll be more proactive about offering help with wiping.

If she still needs help, she's not fully toilet trained. Which isn't a problem, but they need to be on it more

@dreamer24

i didn't ask you anything?!

what I said wasn't arsey, I just said I think you are being unfair on the nursery.

🤷🏻‍♀️🤷🏻‍♀️🤷🏻‍♀️

@SunQueen24

have you read the thread?

the chikdten take themselves off to the toilet. The staff will help if they're asked. Or know there's a problem, but they're not mind readers. They don't know if there's as issue if they're not asked for help (or smell it themselves). No one has said they don't have time to wipe. They don't have time to follow every child to the toilet.

@dreamer24

this is the first time she's had a toilet issue since she was 'toilet trained' in January. I think you're being unfair on the nursery.

better?

I work in a pre-school, we definitely do give a fuck even though we are busy. We know children will end up sore if they aren’t clean and if we know children struggle we absolutely do wipe for them, and also clean them up if they’ve got into this situation. Very occasionally a parent may let us know their child has gone home soiled and the conclusion we have come to is that it’s been right at the end of the day and they haven’t told us/we haven’t smelt it.

They aren’t adhering to the law, assuming U.K.

Yes my son’s school nursery insists they are toilet trained and won’t accept children who are in nappies. That said, they do ask if they need support. My son has been trained for a good 10 months, has just turned 3, but I know nursery still help wipe for a no.2.

@dreamer24

If this is the first issue you've had since January, I think you're criticising the nursery unfairly.

Of course you’re not BU. My little boy in reception doesn’t always wipe his bottom properly so I am not surprised your 3 year old can’t. Some 3 years olds aren’t even potty trained and the staff manage to change them so it’s rubbish they can’t dedicate the time to help them wipe!

Rightly or wrongly I don’t think my 3 year old would have a clue how to wipe his own bum.

YANBU.

Nursery worker here!

That’s really not great ! You don’t get ‘nose blind’ poo is poo and that’s often the first sign for us that someone needs a change even though we check them regularly. I think now that it’s been communicated it should be good as they know she needs support but why are they allowed to go to the bathroom by themselves? That’s not 1:8 ratio because they are on their own. There should be someone at least standing at the door listening out if anyone needs help and if cover is needed due to ratios a manager needs to be asked to cover. I don’t think nurseries are doing so well since covid, but how oh how will they cope with more children due to funding?
Well done for calling, the manager sounds great but the worker sounds over worked and under pressure.

It's not unreasonable for the staff to help her wipe her bottom.
I'm wondering if you have had a conversation with them about it prior to this incident though? Perhaps if she's been successfully independent they feel that when she goes she is fine and doesn't need help.
Of course encourage DD to ask for help but also I'd be checking in with her key worker for a note to be made available for all staff to check her and help her wipe in future. That's not too much to ask.

Out of interest is this a pre-school nursery (attached to the school) or a private one where she has been going since in nappies?

A friend has sent her son to a preschool and the staff have been terrible with toilet support and cite ratios as the reasoning.

If your child still needs help then staff need to know this. Children access the toilets independently so the staff may not have even known she went for a poo. If staff know she needs help they can keep an eye on her but if they don’t know they don’t know, especially if they’ve been told she’s fully toilet trained.
As a PP had said too, you do get nose blind when you work in a nursery so genuinely may not have smelt it.

These things do happen at that age unfortunately, we've had it with both of ours. Staff will happily help if they ask or the staff realise they need it but sometimes they do slip by unnoticed as they do wees without help. As others have said, rooms full of small DC will smell of poo! So once it's happened they may not notice.

Mine went to/are at school nursery which is at 1:13 ratio since lead by a teacher, so there really isn’t support to take them all to the toilet and the older/more capable ones wouldn’t need it anyway. So it had to be said to the nursery ‘he still needs help with wiping’ and to him ‘tell the teacher if you need a poo’. If neither you or her communicated that then I’m not sure it’s nursery’s fault, even at 1:8 they still can’t follow every 3YO into the loo every single time. And maybe it didn’t smell immediately and I bet if they do nappies for the younger kids the staff are basically nose blind! So I wouldn’t hold it against them. But now they know she needs help I would hope that they definitely won’t let it happen again, and hopefully she knows to speak up next time too, bless her.

I’d disagree that the ratio means the kids are unsupervised in the toilet. At my daughters nursery they are encouraged to tell a grown up they’re going to the toilet so someone is supervising as kids 3-5 will often wreak havoc if left unattended with water, soap and toilet paper! We’ve had a similar situation you’re describing OP and it’s upsetting when you realise they’re sore and have been sat in some poo all day. We have been working on my daughter asking a grown up for help when she needs it and wiping herself first.

I’d keep talking to nursery because her dignity and cleanliness is important

I think the point with the ratios is that they can't go and check on every child every time they use the toilet (as you might at home, or a childminder with fewer children might). They need to rely on either children asking for help, or knowing (from parents) which children aren't yet able to manage things themselves. Now that they know your daughter needs help, hopefully they will keep an eye, and you can also train her that if she does a poo she should ask for help.

It is unfortunate your child is sore. But just unlucky. It was a messier than usual poo, she didnt manage to wipe correctly and it was a while before someone identified the smell.

I don't think mentioning the ratios is unreasonable as in a practical sense they cant routinely go to toilet with them. Good that now they know they will offer more support.

I've worked in nurseries and with all the nappies being changed you can become a little nose blind. My daughter also came home in a similar state and they'd had no idea, I smelt it as soon as I picked her up. I have no reason to think they just deliberately left her in her own mess and it was a similar situation where she had been to the toilet and not asked for help.

These things happen in a busy room of children and she's at the awkward age where she's taking herself off independently but isn't fully independent. I spoke to DD and to nursery about making sure she had a bit of help to wipe and we never had another issue. Hopefully things will be just as easily resolved for the OP.

YANBU. I would expect better too.

If you could smell a poo on her, so would they.