Holiday with another family and behaviour of their ASD child

So then...............what happens when the parents of this young girl arent around any more in years to come. Are they going to expect the older siblings to care for her (including one who is so sick of all this that he wants to move in with his gran) Because the resentment of being put through this makes the possiblity of the older siblings stepping up extremely unlikely. I bet the parents havent thought this far ahead at all

You can set boundaries without shouting and screaming though. I certainly can with mine. It's all about being firm and keeping one's calm. That's why parents need to relay each other with an ND child because you always need to keep your calm and It's hard when someone is screaming insults at you, shouting, spitting, hitting themselves. Some of the most adored and efficient teachers my DC have had were very strict and tolerated no bs. They never had to raise their voices because the children respected them and knew there would be consequences if they did not behave.

OP's friends need to set boundaries but noone was talking about shouting. Rather calmly say "you stop hitting/shouting/whatever or I will take you to our room" then execute. Every single time.

What do you mean ?

I suppose it's because it's either nipped in the bud early or disciplined out of them (not the ND but the bad behaviour) and they learn different ways to behave, or those who are unable to cope are hidden out of sight or taken into some sort of institution.

Nowadays, no one knows which is which. If it's because they really are unable to learn the right things to do no matter what or because many adults allow it without redirecting, discipline, teaching and guiding, and let the behaviour develop into something uncontrollable.

Find another place to stay. You deserve a real holiday.

This violent 6-7 year-old is going to seriously harm or kill someone. You don't want it to be you or your children.

Personally, I’d find alternative accommodation but suggest meeting the older kids at the beach once so they know they’re not being rejected. The parents clearly need a shock to wake them up from their ineffectual parenting.

I and my two kids are ASD/ADHD so know there are challenges. DH and I set clear boundaries and consequences. My eldest has MH issues, but neither of my children has ever misbehaved, made other people uncomfortable or embarrassed us.

What I find very interesting - kids with these kinds of ND existed before, but I've never heard of this kind of behaviour when I was growing up in the 80s.

I would move to another hotel and tell them you dont want to be around them until they learn to control their daughter. If she is like this at 7, wtf will she be like as a teenager?? I really feel for their older kid, poor thing.

Alternatively, the marriage ends because the Mum is fed up that she's the only one who tries to manage the behaviour/deals with the child, as the Dad "can't cope"pisses off to the beach but the Mum seemingly has to. It's a miracle!
Seen it 1000x

A 15 year old won't hit a 6 year old unless they're related
Come on!
That's not knocking the 15 year olds able to restrain/divert a SEND child, of which I've known several. Some of whom have more empathy and practical common sense than grown adults.
It is not the OP's DD's job though (or a sibling's for that matter) and the OP has been given lots of good advice on here (hoping that the thread is here in good faith and not because it's Summer Term given it's the second ND on holiday thread I've seen today).

I agree with you, but I do try to be mindful of the fact that I have all sorts of advantages, resources and support at my fingertips. If my situation were different I can imagine I’d be much more likely to make a different choice. I don’t know if you’re speaking from experience in which case you already know this, but managing demand avoidance and teaching self regulation is utterly relentless. It works, but it’s a full time job.

Run.

Yikes, don't be giving out parenting advice or having heart to hearts.

Remove your family from the situation by whatever means seems most practical.

That's all you can reasonably do.

Bluntly I think anyone removing all demands from a PDA child is abusive and setting them up for a lifetime of misery. Low demand - negotiable. No demand - absurd, impossible and failing a child unless they are so severely impaired they will basically spend their lives in a padded cell heavily sedated.

This is really on them. There’s no shame in struggling to parent a PDA ASD child but to arrange a holiday with another family without full disclosure is insane! Sounds like they are in total denial and survival mode. I would change accommodation for your family’s sake and have a conversation. It’s totally reasonable to say that their DD is clearly struggling to be regulated and her behaviour is making it too hard for your family to enjoy your holiday. No judgement, just facts. Clearly things are untenable for them if their son is considering moving out, but their inability to face reality is not your problem.

The parents need to have a routine in place. That poor child don't know whether she is coming or going, bless her.

Tbh, it’s all well and good expecting OPs family to accommodate and put up with bad behaviour which is affecting the enjoyment of their holiday, but this might be the only holiday OP has had this year, and I’m sure wanted it to be enjoyable and relaxing - holidays aren’t cheap. Being brutal, it’s not their circus, and OP has a right not to have to put up and shut up. I’d just take myself and my own family off to do our own thing.

This reminds me of the time I went on a holiday for the disabled my son who was then about 18. He is severely autistic and has additional dx. We had a great time and a few days into the holiday another family arrived with their son and the people running the holiday Centre teamed us up in all the activities. It was a disaster. My son couldn’t cope with the other lad and one day when we went rowing on the lake as one of the activities my son rowed away from them whilst shouting go away, go away. And If that wasn’t bad enough the family then complained and even the organisers said - we thought you’d all be company for each other. I wish we could have been. I really do. But there was no way my son could cope with the other lad. And no doubt there have been people around my son who’ve found it difficult. It’s ok. It really is. I know because my son showed me it’s ok.

Hire an apartment or villa for your family and leave them to it. Don’t fly home.

holiday time is precious,

Oof. My heart goes out to you and to them. I have a son with what sounds like a similar profile and the realisation that there are some things you just can’t do is incredibly hard and sad. Particularly if you have older children who have been used to things that are now impossible, which thankfully is not our situation.

I doubt they expected or intended this, but it is their responsibility to deal with the fall out. If anyone should be leaving or moving.
it should be them, and I wonder if sitting down to discuss it might make them realise that someone needs to take the little girl home or at least make sure she’s heavily supervised and removed at the first sign of being disregulated. We do holiday and take day trips with other people, but only when we are absolutely sure if there is a ‘no escape’ situation that everyone involved understands what might happen if our son decides it’s not the trip for him. We’ll separate off, or even go home if we are inconveniencing or upsetting other people.

You are 100% not being unreasonable, but please try not to give them both barrels when you discuss it if you can manage it.

This isn’t poor parenting as much as it’s tearing up the rule book and starting again and it’s hugely challenging and distressing. There are differing views on how to parent children with demand avoidant profiles. We weren’t prepared to go down the (popular at the moment) road of removing all demand and letting our son rule the roost, but it is one way. If you make that choice it’s easier day to day I guess, but this is the payback for the easier option. Managing demand and helping them find their way through it is exhausting and never ending, but allows a degree of flexibility and the opportunity for the rest of the family to live more of a normal life.

They might well be trying to muddle through for the older kids. So difficult

They are not shitty parents but it is wrong of them to tell op that everyone needs to do what their dd wants after she slapped Op's dd.
They know their daughter, they should not have done this trip if their dd have violent tendencies. Least they could have done is to apologise to op's dd for the slap she received, not tell her that she needed to agree to everything their dd asks.

I am absolutely appalled that they did not have a conversation with you about what to expect from their DDs behaviour before you agreed, took time off work and parted with your hard earned cash for this holiday.

They are either wilfully delusional or they naively thought being away with your family would aomehow make things easier. Either way, THEY should be the ones now facing this head on, apologising and offering a solution for obviously causing so much upheaval/unnecessary compromise in another families holiday.

Or at least cry out for help and stop pretending its all ok!!!

OP isn’t asking what advice she can give her friend. She’s looking for an escape route!!

Stay away or book another hotel - they may have a sister hotel you can swap to. Worth asking.

I also think any heart to heart with the mother should make it clear her marriage may end over this decision to never say no to the child and her older children may well leave with their father.

Seen it.

I agree with this. I have no personal experience of children with autism but I know of a friend's neighbour who has severe autism and their behaviour is similar to what OP describes. Shouting/raising your voice at them can make situation worse and setting boundaries takes on a new meaning.