Holiday with another family and behaviour of their ASD child

If they haven’t been on holiday with them before it’s possible they haven’t encountered this behaviour before. If the child is out of their comfort zone and over stimulated their behaviour will change. I don’t necessarily think they’re bad parents but they definitely should have anticipated this and warned OP of the possibilities. Having said that it’s not good to allow the child to have their own way because of escalations in behaviour when they say no.

Whatever the reasons for her behaviour/their approach to it, it sounds like a difficult and stressful situation all round.

The fact that her DH and older kids 'cannot cope' with the youngest and go to the beach is very telling. It's obviously very hard for them too.

I would focus on separating activities for the remainder of the holiday. If your DS and DH are happy at the beach, they could carry on?

What about you and your daughter? Could you enjoy the beach some days? Or, is there anything in the area you could go and do?
What are the eating arrangements-you say they don't eat at certain times? Can you and your family eat separately either in the accommodation or out somewhere.

You may have to be a bit direct with the mum so they don't follow you e.g. "me and dd won't be with you tomorrow as we are doing X, so we will catch up with you later'

'We are taking DS and DD out for a meal tomorrow night, so we will catch you after for a drink' etc.

I hope you manage to enjoy the rest of the holiday.

I think any advice you give is likely to fall on deaf ears. They sound like they need PBS plan and I am surprised it hasn't been arranged by the school before the exclusion. Or maybe it has but the parents are reluctant to follow it... Who knows. But they elected to manage it in a way that spares their own distress which is understandable. Probably not wise in a long run.
The only thing you can do is to physically remove yourself from the situation. Be honest and say you and your children are finding it difficult to cope and you prefer to spend the rest of the trip alone as a family. You may need to give up your preference for the pool as it doesn't sound very restful anyway. You probably don't need to change accommodation if you manage to avoid them throughout the day.

I feel very sorry for you and the other parent. I have a ND child and my friend has a ND child too. We understood years ago that we could not have our children around my friend’s child because his behaviour was too extreme. Unfortunately she gets this literally everywhere she goes so I feel very sorry for her but her child is actually dangerous and she minimises and rationalises his behaviour. She expects a level of understanding from other parents that their children should be okay being harmed by her child because of his conditions. Not even in the autism community has that been a realistic expectation for my friend. People are not okay with their children being badly hurt or harmed. I think you have to prioritise your own children’s safety in your situation. It is so difficult but really what choice do you have.

Interesting g that the other two whilst also being neurodiverse do not behave in a challenging way. I really think this is a case of all kids with asd being very different. Some will be much more challenging and may appear to just be spoilt. I have changed my attitude massively since having my ds. He has almost broken me many many times and I am far from being a push over.

I suspect it's not a matter of "parenting their child properly" or not. They're clearly overwhelmed and don't know what to do for the best. You say their two older children have "normal" behaviour etc., so it clearly isn't a case of them simply being feckless and lazy parents.

However, being physically assaulted (slapped), and your belongings thrown into a pool, is not something you and your family have to stick around for. Look for alternative accommodation but continue to be there for your friends. Their parenting struggles are not your business to judge. Just be there to support them as friends.

I agree, it's completely out of order. I would remove myself. You cannot change the family dynamics nor the child though. You can only remove yourself from the situation for now.

I'm amazed you weren't pre-warned.
I'm amazed they chose a joint holiday.
I'm amazed, as an SEN parent yourself, and with the knowledge their older two are (presumably) kind, young adults that you blame them entirely for what you consider to be chosen behaviour.
It could well be ASC with a PDA profile (and yes, I know it's not officially recognised in the DSM-5).
I've been there when one of mine was small. Adaptive parenting (which on the surface did and can look like enabling) was needed and it did feel like defusing a bomb/treading on egg shells. It helped to think of the 6 year old as an emotional 4 year old. Distraction/diversion techniques, multiple choice demands, choosing my battles, keeping activities short and sweet, giving the child an illusion of choice or some control over the activity (mine loved water) and being able to predict triggers/head them off but more importantly, having a Plan B, Plan C etc
Working as a team/divide and conquer (meant I had them a lot whilst others went with their father, similar to what's happening here).
However
I didn't put my caring responsibilities onto someone else or expect them to be around or put up with it. If a lunch among friends didn't work (some did, some didn't) I'd take my child out the situation not subject my friends to it. That happened at least three times (but there were other times that worked well with good planning and a distraction activity or I'd see them separately while their father had them).
I would not accept violence or swearing against anyone else (I did suffer a lot of biting and reverse headbutting when mine was small and I was wrangling) and I'm surprised they haven't cried all over you/expressed feelings of regret, embarrassment or shame.
I think you need to say that you are sorry, you do get it, but your own daughter is your priority. It shouldn't come as any surprise to her. How you divvy up pool time though is the issue. You can't "ban" them from the pool but you could go there when they aren't going to be, having asked in advance.

I have a child exactly how you describe in my family and his parents have simply had to accept that some settings aren’t suitable for him. Their management over the years has been to let him get his own way all the time and it’s just not compatible with having other children. It also invariably means other children get hurt, which as a teenager to hurt small children (and I mean small, he doesn’t discriminate at all) simply isn’t ok.

People should absolutely make allowances for SEN and additional needs but everyone else needs to be safe too. It’s also not fair to the SEN child who is struggling because they’re in a situation which doesn’t suit them.

I don’t know what to suggest you do - if they magically change their parenting she won’t respond. Really they should be the ones to leave. Their child isn’t coping, although it sounds like this is the norm and it isn’t about the change in environment.

If you do broach I would suggest centering it around personal safety of the other children.

Without having ever met the child or parents I wouldn’t want to assume they are shitty parents though. I would probably prefer to assume they are fucking knackered, overwhelmed and fallen into habits that look like crap parenting on the outside. They probably do need a better approach to parenting this child but might just not be able to know where to start or have the skills to do so.

I think the OP should look out for what’s best for her own family on this holiday for sure but don’t necessarily think they should cut off friends in the long term.

Sounds like they give in the easier life. I mean they can’t expect say a stranger to do whatever their dd asks so what do they do then? Because that’s how it should be when she’s asking you, your dd or anyone. She wouldn’t be allowed to just go around slapping people. Sen is not an excuse for violence with no consequences.

I wouldn’t go home but I would look to move accommodation or just stop being at the pool for a couple of days. Go to the beach go out on trips.

They have obviously got themselves backed into a corner of giving in, but that’s just going to of made it 10 x worse and the battle to start saying no needs to be happening.

Explain nicely it's effecting your kids and you would like to do things separately fora few days.

But if you have a really volatile child with PDA who can't cope with expectations - you ideally don't set them up by going on holiday unprepared like this, with another family. If when she is older she slapped a random 18 year old and called them a fucking bitch for not doing what she wanted, she could get arrested or attacked. It's a safeguarding issue. You just can't have it.

Do the parents have any awareness about how their DD affects everyone else? Maybe they are so used to it that they don’t realise how much it’s ruining your family’s holiday. I would be honest with your friend and try to stay out of their way. It’s a difficult situation but you aren’t obligated to endure their child’s behaviour.

It is possible though to be both a SEN parent and a bad parent. They aren’t mutually exclusive, and it’s not helpful to excuse shitty parenting just because the child has complex needs.

As the saying goes if you have met one person with autism you have met one person with autism
Just because you have an autistic child doesn't make you an expert on autism or a better parent all children with autism are different
That said you don't have to put it with and let it ruin your holiday.

Sounds like he’ll, and I say that as a mum to a 7yo with complex needs! We holidayed with a (now former) friend last year and her DD sounds exactly the same. In fact we arrived at our accommodation, dumped our bags and needed to head to the supermarket for our click and collect slot, except her DD wouldn’t allow this. So the four of us sat in the car for forty mins whilst ‘friend’ waited for her 6yo to decide we could actually go to the supermarket after all. Friendship ended a few months later but the way she “parents” her daughter and then blames it on SEN was a huge reason why.

I think you need to let go of the idea that they can necessarily parent this behaviour away. I have two with asd - both parented the same and one was really impossible to stop at times. He ended up in residential school as it was breaking us. I think going on holiday with another family was definitely never going to work for your friend and I am really surprised that it was even suggested. I think cutting them off completely is very unkind but avoiding family days out is perfectly understandable.

Sounds like they have got stuck in survival mode of constant appeasement. This means that to stop the problem that is happening now in this instant they back down, but the child then isn't learning anything about negotiation, compromise, delayed gratification, or managing big feelings.

There's not much you can do really.

If you can be bothered, you could try to relate it to your own experiences with your autistic son at that age. "Oh when Bobby was thus age he really struggled with his emotions too. We were advised to grant him his wish in imagination and I was skeptical but it worked really well. Like if he wanted an ice cream but it was nearly tea time and I didn't want him to have one, I would say 'Its too close to tea time for an ice cream, but we can get one after. It sounds like you'd really like one. Me too. I would choose a huge cone with marshmallows and strawberry ice cream. What would you choose if you could have one?'"

There's no autism specialist out there who would say never to deny anything to an autistic child, even one who is having huge tantrums, but there are ways of saying no without exactly saying no.

Shitty to call them bad parents and want to cut contact but reasonable to not be coping with this level of behaviour on your holiday. I’m curious though how you have managed to know the child 7 years and not be aware of her level of challenging behaviour?
I would find alternative accommodation or just take your family off each day.

I have a child who is ND she wouldn't be violent but holidaying with another family would be a nightmare for her. She would be totally disregulated and anxious. All ND children are different and I can understand how this is affecting you and your families holiday so huge sympathies. I think they really should have expected this and said when you were making the arrangements that it wouldn't be a good idea.

I can see why they want to go on holidays with another family, but the cheek of them going on holiday another family without discussing these issues first.

I would just say that you need to separate your plans as DD behaviour is too much and completely do your own thing.

I'd move villas/hotels rather than fly home.