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Holiday with another family and behaviour of their ASD child

436 replies

upoutandin87 · 21/08/2024 15:54

Currently on holiday with my family and another family (old friends) they have 2 older children same age as my kids and they also now have a 6 yr old. We have holidayed with them before but not since the youngest was born. Youngest is ND (autism and suspected ADHD). My son is 15 and autistic so I know about ASD but there DD seems out of control and we can't cope with it. She swears spits hits and throws furniture if she doesn't get her own way - there is no routine and she basically gets what she wants - she slapped my DD earlier today and called her a f b because she didn't want to go in the pool with her - my friends answer to this was you cannot say no to her - if you don't do what she wants she kicks off so we have to let her do what she wants. My friends DH and 2 older kids can't cope with her so they go to the beach and take my 15 yr old with them - I prefer being by the pool so I stay with them and my DD 17. We honestly don't know what to do as our holiday is being ruined by a 7 yr old. She threw my bag in the pool yesterday and I was fuming. We are trying to do stuff without them but they seem to be constantly appearing - they never raise their voice at their DD or tell her to stop as negative language makes her worse. Last night their 15 yr old told my son that she has been permanently excluded from her primary school and she currently has no school place from September - I was aware she has had several exclusions for violence but only short term exclusions but her parents have not mentioned to us about the exclusion. My DH wants us to cut all ties with them until they start parenting their child properly. We are only 3 days in to a 10 day holiday and are tempted to fly home to get away from them. I feel so bad as I am an SEN parent myself but they won't take any advice from us about maybe having a routine and setting boundaries. I so feel for them as they are completely broken by her behaviour but I don't actually know what I can do to help.

OP posts:
MintyNew · 21/08/2024 19:08

I don't know why you are even giving them so much grace after she slapped your dd. That would have been the perfect opportunity to immediately let them know to keep their distance.
How dare they not tell you how extremely out of control their child is. I would be furious really

Merryoldgoat · 21/08/2024 19:07

PrincessPeache · 21/08/2024 16:10

It is possible though to be both a SEN parent and a bad parent. They aren’t mutually exclusive, and it’s not helpful to excuse shitty parenting just because the child has complex needs.

I agree @PrincessPeache

My two boys have ASD and it’s really hard sometimes but there is no way I would tolerate that behaviour.

They need to try proper strategies to improve things and seek all of the support they can get.

GreatMistakes · 21/08/2024 19:07

The thing is, her view of a reasonable adjustment might work for her daughter, but it doesn't work for yours and its OK, necessary even, to support your daughter and ensure her safety and boundaries are respected.

As an example, in your shoes, id have said that DD has said she does not want to go in the pool and that's the end of it. Make it about you parenting your daughter rather than her parenting hers if you want to avoid confrontation.

GreatMistakes · 21/08/2024 19:04

You need to be honest 1 to 1 with the mum.

We love you, we love your family, we know you have a lot going on right now but hadn't appreciated just how much. However, DD and the rest of our family cannot bend to fit your daughters routine therefore I think its best that we do seperate day trips and the adults can meet up in the evening.

whereisthelifethatirecognize · 21/08/2024 19:03

They are raising a monster. And they don't care.

I would not be shy about telling them they have to go (or you do) as this holiday is being ruined by their utter failure to say no and parent their child.

Their idea of an 'easy life' is actually going to be a nightmare for them, especially if she has lost her school place over her behaviour, and her behaviour will only get worse without actual parenting and interventions, support and cracking down on her behaviour. Someday she is going to be even bigger and stronger, possibly stronger than her parents, and someone is going to get hurt. And their other children will flee the home as soon as they can if nothing is done.

I wouldn't be putting up with any of this on my long looked forward to holiday.

L1ttledrummergirl · 21/08/2024 19:03

I'm clearly an awful person. If my friends were fucking off to the beach and leaving me to manage their child's behaviour, I would be managing it my way.

Any signs of bad behaviour, tantrums for me saying no, they would be sitting on the side next to me until it stopped. If they carry on we would head back to the room and stay there until I felt ready to return. If I'm having a shit day because of their behaviour, then they can to.

I would hazard a guess that they would want to spend the next few days with their parents.

PDA is a nightmare to manage, but it can be managed. Lots of choices, give them a perception of control, and compromise where needed, but you still need to assert boundaries.
Visual cues on timings, agree a time to do what they want, set an alarm and stick to your word. Lots of praise when they show positive behaviour and bribery where needed.

coxesorangepippin · 21/08/2024 18:58

I cannot believe the amount of comments excusing this child's behavior - it has totally ruined a holiday for another family!

And the parents don't seem to care.

coxesorangepippin · 21/08/2024 18:56

Your DH's suggestion of having nothing to do with them until they become a fully functional family is horrible.

^

Why? Why is it horrible?

Phineyj · 21/08/2024 18:53

From my personal experience and research I've participated in, this is a problematic age with these kind of issues. Old enough to want some independence but with the emotional regulation of a toddler.

Age often helps a lot. But again that's not the OP's issue. Damage limitation is the only option this week.

Phineyj · 21/08/2024 18:49

I have a child with a similar ASD/PDA profile (but big difference - problematic behaviour only directed at me and DH, hardly ever at others and "fine at school").

There's a great Polish proverb: "not my circus; not my monkeys."

This is not your problem to fix. Do what you have to, to not be in charge of/around this child for the rest of the trip. Try to avoid judgment.

However, your friend should have disclosed to you what the worst case scenario could be and checked you were still OK to go ahead. Although it sounds like you're not really that close if you had no idea.

DyslexicPoster · 21/08/2024 18:49

MortimerBeQuiet · 21/08/2024 16:13

But if you have a really volatile child with PDA who can't cope with expectations - you ideally don't set them up by going on holiday unprepared like this, with another family. If when she is older she slapped a random 18 year old and called them a fucking bitch for not doing what she wanted, she could get arrested or attacked. It's a safeguarding issue. You just can't have it.

My dd has,ASD and pda traits,( they won't diagnose pda in my county).

I have to agree in that my dd will be a woman one day with asd and pda and she needs to know now before she grows up that once she hits a certain age and hits people she will be off to prison. Giving in to everything will do no favours in the long run. My dd needs lots of spelling very clearly that if you do X then you get Y. She's,also been suspended. We had to be totally Frank and say if she carries on it's expulsion. It's been hideous at times.

I would try to avoid them honestly.

suburburban · 21/08/2024 18:48

Afraid I have to agree Burner

Why is it ok for the dc to hurt people around them. I know I wouldn't put up with it

Newname71 · 21/08/2024 18:46

I have a 17 year old DS who was an absolute nightmare at that age. ADHD, obsessive compulsive behaviour and huuuge violent meltdowns. I’ve been punched, slapped, kicked, had my hair pulled and been spat on. It was a very bleak time in my life. I absolutely would never have inflicted that on any other family especially on what’s supposed to be a relaxing holiday!!
He’s an absolute darling now (although still a bit of a handful at times!)

BurnerName1 · 21/08/2024 18:46

x2boys · 21/08/2024 18:31

Lovely let's just beat the autism out of her that will work .

To be honest it's what would have happened in the past. It would have harmed the autistic child especially in the short term but it would have protected those around them AND taught them about where the red lines are.

The problem is people understandably don't want to beat children but they frequently don't seem to have any alternative behaviour management strategies either. Society is just expected to put up with little Jimmy or Jenny growing from a violent child into a violent adult. We'll then be lectured on how outrageous and rejecting society is. What is the solution? Institutionalise these children so they can have specialist support?

WhereDoWeGoFromHereBill · 21/08/2024 18:45

x2boys · 21/08/2024 18:09

I think you will find it can be .

Nope. It is how undisciplined children work.

Fundays12 · 21/08/2024 18:44

Whatafustercluck · 21/08/2024 18:32

This is so hard to comment on because I see considerable similarities with my own dd (7yo) when she's totally dysregulated. And it's usually much, much worse on holiday. Thankfully, her worst behaviour is directed at dh and I, though. Once she reaches this level of dysregulation, over a protracted period of time without the opportunity to reduce her anxiety, the only way to get her, and us, through it, is to remove all demands in the short term, put up with the disapproving looks from others about our lack of boundaries/ consequences/ behaviour management and just help her regulate first and foremost. The rules come back into play once she is settled. We do have boundaries, she knows right and wrong, and is an absolute delight mostly, well mannered, caring, funny etc. But on her worst days, you'd say she was just doing things to get her own way and we were enabling her behaviour by allowing it to go unchecked. I feel an overwhelming sense of empathy with the parents.

The only thing that gives me pause is that op has said there's a general lack of routine, which I'd agree won't be helping the situation, and may indeed be a big cause of it. They desperately need advice and support, because it sounds like their dd has spiralled completely and they're now struggling to take back the reins.

However. This is your holiday too and, for whatever reason, you were not aware of how badly her behaviour would impact on you and your family. You're close enough friends to holiday together, so I'd expect you to be close enough to explain honestly how you feel: desperately sorry and understanding of their situation, but this isn't what you were expecting and you need some space to enjoy your holiday. As others have said, you may find that they're grateful to you for removing an additional pressure they don't need. As a friend, I'd be enquiring as to what kind of support they have sought, are receiving and if there's anything you can do to help.

Very well written

OpizpuHeuvHiyo · 21/08/2024 18:38

The child's behaviour was not caused by terrible parenting and will not suddenly be cured by your friend suddenly adopting a new strict parenting style. They will have tried "normal" parenting and found it made things worse.

What was unreasonable was them agreeing to this holiday with you without discussing the problems and how it will impact you. They have probably lost sight of what "reasonable" looks like.

Your DH's suggestion of having nothing to do with them until they become a fully functional family is horrible. However to save your friendship you probably need to get separate accommodation for the rest of the holiday if at all possible, and don't go on holiday with them again without a careful conversation about how to manage everyone's needs.

GroundSand32 · 21/08/2024 18:38

Whatafustercluck · 21/08/2024 18:32

This is so hard to comment on because I see considerable similarities with my own dd (7yo) when she's totally dysregulated. And it's usually much, much worse on holiday. Thankfully, her worst behaviour is directed at dh and I, though. Once she reaches this level of dysregulation, over a protracted period of time without the opportunity to reduce her anxiety, the only way to get her, and us, through it, is to remove all demands in the short term, put up with the disapproving looks from others about our lack of boundaries/ consequences/ behaviour management and just help her regulate first and foremost. The rules come back into play once she is settled. We do have boundaries, she knows right and wrong, and is an absolute delight mostly, well mannered, caring, funny etc. But on her worst days, you'd say she was just doing things to get her own way and we were enabling her behaviour by allowing it to go unchecked. I feel an overwhelming sense of empathy with the parents.

The only thing that gives me pause is that op has said there's a general lack of routine, which I'd agree won't be helping the situation, and may indeed be a big cause of it. They desperately need advice and support, because it sounds like their dd has spiralled completely and they're now struggling to take back the reins.

However. This is your holiday too and, for whatever reason, you were not aware of how badly her behaviour would impact on you and your family. You're close enough friends to holiday together, so I'd expect you to be close enough to explain honestly how you feel: desperately sorry and understanding of their situation, but this isn't what you were expecting and you need some space to enjoy your holiday. As others have said, you may find that they're grateful to you for removing an additional pressure they don't need. As a friend, I'd be enquiring as to what kind of support they have sought, are receiving and if there's anything you can do to help.

If you listen to anything OP, this is the one in my view

Allthegoodnamesarechosen · 21/08/2024 18:37

x2boys · 21/08/2024 18:19

In her first post she' said her son ia autistic .so knows about autism
But that's the thing what works for one child with autism doesn't for another.

I think she probably that she has some experience with ND behaviour and needs, so she would be more prepared for some less usual experiences than many other people would be .

Come on though. Not many ND children are permanently excluded at the age of six for violence. That’s not within virtually anyone’s expectations.

Otherstories2002 · 21/08/2024 18:36

x2boys · 21/08/2024 18:35

You are talking about a disabled six year old
Very apt user name BTW.

It’s a troll. Report and move on.

TheFormidableMrsC · 21/08/2024 18:36

This is hideous but it sounds like PDA. The comment that "you can't say no to her" is a clue to this. However if there is no diagnosis and they're not aware of it, not a lot you can do. I'm a SN parent and I have pointed this out to other parents on occasion though!

I think in this instance, you have to place your boundaries, make sure it's ok for your kids to have boundaries and go off and do your own thing as much as you can. It sounds so very stressful, I'm sorry 😔

x2boys · 21/08/2024 18:35

This reply has been deleted

Message deleted by MNHQ. Here's a link to our Talk Guidelines.

You are talking about a disabled six year old
Very apt user name BTW.

crockofshite · 21/08/2024 18:33

This reply has been deleted

Message deleted by MNHQ. Here's a link to our Talk Guidelines.

NiggleNoggle · 21/08/2024 18:32

@Summerforever234 I am also the parent of a child with PDA but I would never have inflicted their behaviour on others to the extent that a holiday was ruined for everyone else.

I actually think it's unforgivable that the other family has not been honest before the holiday about the challenges they all might face when away (so that the OP could choose to try and accommodate/support etc. if they even felt they could)

@upoutandin87 I think you should just find other accommodation and try to continue your holiday. I hope you can salvage the friendship.

Whatafustercluck · 21/08/2024 18:32

This is so hard to comment on because I see considerable similarities with my own dd (7yo) when she's totally dysregulated. And it's usually much, much worse on holiday. Thankfully, her worst behaviour is directed at dh and I, though. Once she reaches this level of dysregulation, over a protracted period of time without the opportunity to reduce her anxiety, the only way to get her, and us, through it, is to remove all demands in the short term, put up with the disapproving looks from others about our lack of boundaries/ consequences/ behaviour management and just help her regulate first and foremost. The rules come back into play once she is settled. We do have boundaries, she knows right and wrong, and is an absolute delight mostly, well mannered, caring, funny etc. But on her worst days, you'd say she was just doing things to get her own way and we were enabling her behaviour by allowing it to go unchecked. I feel an overwhelming sense of empathy with the parents.

The only thing that gives me pause is that op has said there's a general lack of routine, which I'd agree won't be helping the situation, and may indeed be a big cause of it. They desperately need advice and support, because it sounds like their dd has spiralled completely and they're now struggling to take back the reins.

However. This is your holiday too and, for whatever reason, you were not aware of how badly her behaviour would impact on you and your family. You're close enough friends to holiday together, so I'd expect you to be close enough to explain honestly how you feel: desperately sorry and understanding of their situation, but this isn't what you were expecting and you need some space to enjoy your holiday. As others have said, you may find that they're grateful to you for removing an additional pressure they don't need. As a friend, I'd be enquiring as to what kind of support they have sought, are receiving and if there's anything you can do to help.