Just a rant about how blatantly unfair this is for women?

You are so correct with this post OP.
My ex refused to pay anything as apparently I' did not understand about his money situation'. I went to CSA ( thats what it was called in those days). They told ex what he had to pay and he refused point blank. Nothing happened and after several years I got a letter telling me that the CSA had stopped pursuing him for the money and had written it off. He owed me £1000's. He saw the children initially every other weekend but then it all fell apart and he has no contact with them now and has not for well over 10 years. He knows nothing of their lives now and is not interested at all. No one knows his contact details or anything.Feckless does not cover it. But- there is an effect not just on women and society- my lovely DC have to live with how he behaved. Its awful.

So are women just these thick people who have no agency or any choice to procreate (and let's face it there's usually more than one kid involved, sometimes more than two different losers)? Come on, maybe we need to start to take responsibility for our choices, and by knowing that we actually pay attention when making them

Good idea, but realistically a lot if women wouldn't sign it because they love and trust who they're spawning with.
It should be quite simply whoever leaves the family (because it can be the mother!) is legally obliged to pay 50% of the average cost to raise a child to 18, if it can be proven they don't have the child 50% of the time, or face some kind of criminal charge. The costs of children don't stop once they no longer need childcare!

You raise your daughter to know that there's more to life than just having a baby and if she is going to make one male sure she picks a great person to have one with. Someone who will make a great husband and a great father, someone she can rely on and trust. Tbh I doubt 99% of these crappy 'fathers' ever came close to fitting that criteria.

you are so right. it also annoys me how these moms are painted as feckless when if it wasnt for them stepping up the children would be in care.
cms is a joke and paying maintence should be just as important as rent council tax etc

When I was in the throes of single parenting, no money from ex for our child and he only occasionally had them for a few hours a couple of times a month, I used to say that if a father did all the things that a mother did,especially a mum on her own, the BBC would be making a documentary about him. The nation would marvel and fawn over this man as he cooked, cleaned, held down a job, paid all the bills and raised the kids on his own. He would be seen as a marvel, a miracle, a hero and his selflessness would be applauded. Of course there are single dads who do a tremendous job but generally it is women who do it all

This makes me so angry. It shouldn't be a choice for fathers to pay less/do less. They are equally responsible for the child they created and whatever the needs are that should be 50:50. How on earth are mothers supposed to earn money at all with the crippling costs of childcare and the men involved doing next to nothing or less than that?

We need a proper solution to this. CSA but with heft and grip that can't be escaped. The USA can do this, why can't we?

I'm coming out of the other side of this, as DD turned 18 this year.

SO WHAT DO WE DO ABOUT IT LADIES?

I'm serious. We can't keep on going round in this circle and letting women after us suffer in the same way we have.

A massive societal change is needed here. We're somehow getting there with societal change to the menopause. This has surely got to be the next big behemoth.

Do we need Davina? MN to get campaigning?

How do we effect change rather than moan about the situation?

When I found out a couple of years ago that this is women’s legal position when you split up from a birth father I was absolutely horrified. Sadly it was just after I had had my baby. I’m a mature Mum so had a similar wage to my husband prior to children but now work part time. Doing it all you need to be like some sort of superwomen! But it now leaves me independently worse off which is frightening!

I believe there should be an iron right draft legal document available for free which we could then get a partner to sign before/whilst pregnant which ensure they take 50/50 responsibility of all costs associated with a child up to them being 18. None of this CMS 15/25% crap (and then some don’t pay!!).

I wasn't thinking that it was remarkable.

More thinking along the lines of him paying for childcare which is what I think many single mothers struggle with.

Especially if they are needing full time nursery care.

True. But I know my brother will be her first choice. He has taken on so much of the dad role for my children over the years. We've been so lucky to have him around. He doesn't have his own children so he's been able to help me.

My daughter's father never paid a penny and saw her once a month. She is an adult now and is very aware that I provided everything, worked full-time, funded all nursery fees, together with paying the mortgage and all the bills. Children will work it out for themselves. It is not fair but what can you do?

Also, the man can bugger off with no consequences.

But if the woman then goes out for a drink and leaves the child at home on its own for an hour it's neglect. Yes it is neglect, but why is it all on her? Why is the man allowed to abdicate his responsibilities?

I judge colleagues & relatives. I absolutely do. If you have non resident kids and are on a decent salary but living a luxury lifestyle, I judge because someone else is paying the price.

I wasn't a big fan of ex sil, but the reason BIL got to play out his house in the country, 2.4 kids was her. The reason in his 50s he's a high earner, experienced successful job is her. The reason he has so much capital is because he was never home and paid no tax.

Too right he should be paying a fuck ton of support. Hearing his mum saying how much he does now, how generous he is, makes me ridiculously angry. He was never at the coal face during the early &middle years and he has consistently arranged his life to suit himself absolutely first.

I agree, it’s disgusting. There will never be equality in this country until men are obligated to step up to their caring responsibilities, the way women are by default.

You are most definitely NOT being unreasonable!

I was doom scrolling TikTok yesterday and came across a Mum bemoaning the same thing.

When living with her husband his job was "most important" so she took a part time job to do most of the childcare. Then when he left, he couldn't possibly have the children during the week because of his "very important" job, so the days when the children used to be in childcare now fall on "her" days, so she has to pay for them. But she can't afford them, so has had to take another job, which means the children now have to be in even more childcare, which costs even more money. All on "her" days.

All while he gets to play Disney dad at the weekends and pay over a measly percentage of his salary, then get lauded for being such a wonderful Dad because his kids adore him. Of course they adore him, they get to see only the best of him, not the stressed to hell, getting them ready and out the door to childcare version of him, like they see their mum.

Childcare costs should be factored into CMS claims IMO.

Yea to all of what you said. I’m sick of single mothers treated like a drain but men get constant praise and adoration for the bare minimum.

My kids cost around £3000 (childcare,food,clothes etc) and all their dad contributes is £341 a month, and he has the cheek to complain about that.

something needs to change.

You'd think MNHQ would be all over this, the site being what it purports to be? Imagine that, a national campaign started by Mumsnet...

OP, you're not wrong. Absolutely agree with every word and that of many posters here on this topic. It really shouldn't need saying but it absolutely does.

I became a single mum in the 80's, through no choice of my own. We were vilified in the press. Single mothers were the root of all evil.
My kids are grown up now. I,m out of the trenches, but it still pisses me off how little the political parties are willing to deal with the issue of Non paying NRP's . It's more galling because they actually have the power to. they just refuse to use it to its full force.

Until there is a stigma and shame associated with not supporting the children you created nothing will change. Literally, all it would take was a media campaign. When I was young drunk driving was common, until there was a concerted effort to show the effects of it and fines became harsh. Attitudes within society changed and now it's very much frowned upon.

I would love to see that same effort directed at feckless NRP's.

I suppose what should happen (as a partial, not a full solution) is that the true costs of parenting should be properly factored in - the time, often resulting in detriment to career, the full cost of childcare, costs such as transporting the child to school etc.
And then the CSA should be calculated accordingly - if you're not putting in the labour or paying 'incidentals', then you should have to pay more cash.

Don't rant on MP, get a political campaign going. CM and nursery costs are completely mismatched with the mum (usually) expected to just stump up the shortfall. I'm married and unaffected but this but will happily join any campaign. Its so obviously wrong.

A good friend of mine was married to a guy and they struggled to conceive. They went down the IVF route and had 2 failed rounds, she was ready to throw in the towel and possibly adopt. He insisted they try just one more round, and the hot pregnant with twins. He was delighted, did everything he could to prepare, was over the moon when they arrived.

6 months later he realised twins were hard work and left her. He really was not some useless man who was forced into it. His actions shocked everyone to the point his own parents have minimal contact with him.

Stop blaming women for the actions and decisions of men.

Couldn’t agree more. The system is awful along with the low expectations of Dads. I often say to my husband that I find is frustrating that just because he pulls his weight he’s seen by society as an amazing Dad and husband where as it’s just expected that women do all the things that we do. The bar is set so low! The system around child support needs to change the day to day parenting is tough let alone being left to do the bill of the care while loosing out financially while men are left better off with less responsibility.

I get it really, but obviously any legislation or change in process would not be sex specific, just as the CMS service is not.

And in my defence I'm not actually saying "not al men" my point was more "not all women". The title of this thread literally says it's "blatantly unfair for women" I'm just pointing out that it's actually unfair for NRP not necessarily for women. I do of course concede that's more often women. But it wasn't in my case. And I'm some ways I'd actually says it's harder to be a single dad. There aren't many others in the same situation to bond with. And in my case his parents lived in another country so no he didn't have granny on hand (before anyone suggests that)
Some mothers are shit. Some dad's step up.