To think many people don't understand true loneliness?

I think this is great advice

Most people have to work hard at this - you say that why exactly? Did you imply that the OP did not work hard? You have no idea what a person may have overcome already and what they still have to overcome to put themselves 'out there' as so many here have suggested. Did people really think this never occured to OP and others?

Consider yourself lucky you don't get the OP and their camp here and that you seemingly have no idea what people might have to overcome to be able to join a club for example.

What you describe it totally normal. Most people go along with it. It's called compromising. You know, this isn't what people meant that they dont put up with BS. It only becomes BS if you are the only one to always accommodate others for example. And it would not be good advice to someone to put up with this actual BS to overcome loneliness.

@Twatalert I'm sorry if it comes off that way but that was not at all my intention. I certainly wasn't trying to show off my success, to the contrary i was trying to make the point that many people have to work really hard at establishing a social circle and friendships, even those who may not seem that way from the outside. Of course I can't know the ins and outs of your family, I can only go on the few sentences you wrote.

@Zow It's comforting to know others see it like that too. Thankfully, I am well past the stage where I take these things personal. I know they come from a position of 'not knowing' and not being able to put yourself in these peoples' shoes.

@Zow I wouldn't think I'm a doormat, although it is an interesting perspective for me to consider! But I do a lot of organising, that's for sure. I don't put up with being mistreated, when I say I tolerate BS I meant more cancelling or messing about with times. If someone wants to go to a restaurant that isn't my choice, I'll
go. If someone wants to change the time, I go along with it, that sort of thing. I guess I'm easy going but its strategic if that makes sense. Sometimes I'm not as easy going as people think but I love company and I love a good night out so I make the choice to accept it.

@Twatalert I agree. That poster minimizing your hurt and devastation is quite cruel. Maybe they didn't mean it that way but it has come across like that.

@Alalalalalongalalalalalonglonglilong To me it sounds you don't quite know what dysfunctional families are like. I'm not sorry to say that you are in fact victim shaming by saying something along the lines of 'what might be an oversight on their part is perceived as quite hurtful by the other party'. It's the systematic dysfunction and scapegoating of one person that leads to feelings like that. Nobody is cutting contact with family because they did not receive a present one Christmas.

You say yourself your life is quite full and you don't get the OP. I wonder what you are doing on this thread if you don't actually know what people here are talking about? I mean you let us know what a whizzard you are with people and social interactions. I don't even know where to meet you and try to explain and get through to you. But rest assured your response is an insult to many.

@Alalalalalongalalalalalonglonglilong

I can say if I changed my relationship with people and reduced contact every time I felt let down then I would have no one. I have lost so many friends over the years from lack of interest on their part, it has often been very hurtful. i have some family members who consistently don't make the effort but I do, and I have along the way decided to accept that.

I basically tolerate a lot of BS from people because i choose to. And I never stop reaching out to people, just because you have people in your life doesn't mean you don't need more. For example a few months ago I thought it might be nice to get to know the neighbours better so I set up a book club and sent out invites,

Nope, been there done that, too many times. Been the mug doing all the running and the chasing, and being shat on and mugged off. Happened too often and I CBA anymore.

Do you have low self esteem? I don't understand why you are being such a doormat. I was like you for a number of years, and looking back now - I really regret not cutting people off sooner, and making waaaaay less effort than I did. Very few people made as much effort in maintaining friendships and relationships than I did.

I would rather have just 3 people in my life who love me and care about me, than 20 people who I am constantly chasing for their attention and affection (like you appear to be doing - going by what you're saying.)

.

Even having grown up children that are still in your life doesn’t mean that you still don’t feel profoundly alone though. My dh died 3 years ago and my dc are very busy with their own lives and families, I miss the connection I had with dh, I come home often to an empty house, cook my own meals, I have acquaintances rather than friends.. they all have their own closer friends and no extended family, no parents. I have no one to share my day, my worries, my troubles and I’m surrounded by couples and young families. My grown up dc no longer spend time with me, haven’t fallen out but they have moved away, ones ina different country.

it’s vastly different from having a dh that’s alive and shares your home, you can cuddle up to at night and in the morning, go on holiday together, chat about your day. The last person to make me a cuppa was six months ago. Dh used to make me one every morning. I miss him and our life together. I’m only 47.

@MightyGoldBear

I do agree at the start it will be superficial in terms of you are just getting to know one another but if that other person isn't interested in making friends then there's not a lot you can do.

But this is the nub of it for me: I feel quite often when people talk about being lonely and not being able to make friends they often expect things to move unrealistically fast.

Making friends, proper friends, takes time. It can take years and friendships ebb and flow. You kind of have to roll with it and not take things so personally. What will be will be.

I know this is easier said than done; but sometimes I see posts from people saying “we went out for a coffee and got on well, why didn’t she want to go again?” It’s almost as if people see making friends as signing a contract. There’s no obligation to start going out regularly with someone all the time. Even if you like them. Sometimes people are busy, sometimes they are shy, sometimes they just aren’t ready.

Its organic and it goes in fits and starts often. You can meet someone a few times and not really “get” them and become firm friends later.

Its hard if you’re so focused on it but I think a lot of the time people would help themselves by just taking the pressure off these meetings to deliver an oven ready friendship and just see what happens.

I think there is often a huge difference in one person's actions and another's reactions. Like here, what was merely an oversight to one person is devastating to another who is already struggling. But what I find hard to understand @Twatalert is that there is an element of self punishing here, you don't spend Christmas with them now, i know you say there are other reasons too.

My life is quite full and I'll be honest I don't get @CobaltQueen but I can say if I changed my relationship with people and reduced contact every time I felt let down then I would have no one. I have lost so many friends over the years from lack of interest on their part, it has often been very hurtful. i have some family members who consistently don't make the effort but I do, and I have along the way decided to accept that. I basically tolerate a lot of BS from people because i choose to. And I never stop reaching out to people, just because you have people in your life doesn't mean you don't need more. For example a few months ago I thought it might be nice to get to know the neighbours better so I set up a book club and sent out invites, I was really nervous about this but decided it was good for me. I now have become close to 2 neighbours in particular. Just yesterday I messaged an old colleague who last messaged me a year ago, it was her turn to message, but I'm assuming she forgot so I sent it anyway. Its constant, and its hard work.

I do understand though the cyclical nature of it, the larger your circle the more confident you become, the more rejections you get the less so. But I think the main thing is keep trying again and again and again, because no one else can do it for you.

I think there's quite a difference in being truly alone and having a DH at home or grown up children who may not live with you but unless they have cut you off completely you do have someone.
I have no partner or family but I have lots of friends, I still get lonely and don't take about the little things in my day. Being honest I was happier and less exhausted in a relationship, I didn't feel the need to be constantly planning or doing
I agree with pp on here saying that people sense desperation. Someone said to me that lonely people tend to over share and talk in detail about their work or a problem; probably because it's the lack of having someone to share day to day things with. I am in a choir and there's plenty of people who live alone, there's some who are just quite dull because they talk about the details of everything and don't ask you any questions back ; it's quite exhausting. I don't know the answer but maybe try and engage in conversations where you make a mental note to not talk about work and ask questions - just an idea and I am not suggesting you are dull or in anyway uninteresting. Best of luck OP

Our tech based society doesn't help with this. In the past, I walked / bus to work, queued in the post office to buy road tax, bought groceries on the way home etc. All of these were micro opportunities to socialise, exchange pleasantries. And who knows, after seeing the same faces at the bus stop daily, you might eventually talk to one of them, discover you have a friend in common, 3 of you go out some time and eventually a friendship develops. I do have one friend who I met 30 years ago at a bus stop, got chatting, turned out we work in similar fields. But now, I WFH, buy road tax online and our local shop is self service. Far more isolating

Agree with PPs. Joining a club / night class / gym are all good ways to keep busy and develop new skills. But, most people aren't there to make new friends

Many people don't understand situations that they themselves have never experienced.
Feelings are also quite subjective, so what one person deems loneliness, another might not.
People aren't necessarily trying to diminish your experience or feelings by describing themselves as feeling lonely in a situation that you consider to be less lonely than your own.

I hope you're OK. Glad you decided to post again @CobaltQueen and weren't driven off because a handful of people were nasty last night. I'm sorry to hear that you feel quite blue, and so sad about some things that you don't even feel comfortable posting about it (just yet.) As quite a number of posts have revealed, you are not alone, and it's not rare for people to feel like you do/be in your situation. Doesn't make things any easier for you of course, but hopefully, you find some comfort in knowing that you're not alone.

I think this is a desperately sad thread. I also think there's far many more people in the position of the OP, (and quite a few posters on here, in a similar position to her,) than there are people with lots and lots of family and friends around them.

I know a few families in my village who have like, 10 or 12 family members living close by - and they always seem to be going on day trips having barbecues, going to the bingo, to the pub, to the pub quizzes, to car boot sales, for long walks together, and having big family 'get-togethers etc...' And they post pictures on Facebook all the time of their big shiny happy family. And quite honestly all I've got is my husband, and my two adult children ... but DC live half an hour's drive away and aren't in our lives much. We see them twice a month.

If DH died, I pretty much would have no one except my adult children. But as much as they love me, they've got their own lives. They've got very busy professional careers, their own homes, and their DPs. And I think even though I'm chatty and friendly with people. and people are friendly with me, I haven't got any proper friends that I can rely on or call a true friend. I have had, and they've come and gone. But the friendships have never lasted. I have several neighbours who are chatty and friendly, but I am not particularly close to them. They have their own lives, just as my adult DC do.

When my parents and grandparents were alive, they seemed to have friends that they had known/been friends with for 60+ years... Don't see this so much now. Also, I haven't had any family around me, since my parents died (and DH's parents died) a couple of decades ago. Lost touch with aunts, uncles, and cousins some years ago. Weren't super close, but did see each other once or twice a week pre 2000s. (And there were quite a few family parties - and the odd celebration/weddings/Christenings etc...)

DH and I have got a brother each - but they moved abroad many years ago and we have had very little to do with them for about 20 years. We haven't even seen them for about 10 years. I sometimes get a little bit low when I see people having big celebrations at the pub for New Year's Eve, or getting together for big football tournament finals, and having big Christmas day celebrations together etc - and it's just me and D. H. Our adult children see us 22-23 December where we have a pub lunch together and swap gifts, but they want to spend Christmas with their partners.

I've tried in the past to join groups, creative writing groups, and craft groups, and I joined the church, etc. But whilst people were friendly and courteous in those groups, nobody bothered with me out of them. I'm just turned 60, and have actually got to the point where I'm friendly and chatty with people when I see them, but for the last probably five or six years. I haven't bothered trying to make friends.

Because every single friend I've ever made was either ghosted me, gone a bit cold on me and not bothered with me so much (until I've eventually stopped bothering with them,) and I've also had a couple that have become absolutely obsessive and possessive, constantly contacting me, constantly coming round and won't leave me alone, and I found them too intense and had to ghost them!

So here I sit now with not actually a single close friend in the world. I have just one friend who I meet me for coffee every couple of months. and even she's quite flaky and it's always me who contacts her. And all she does is just talk about herself and all her problems!

So yes, I guess I don't feel the crippling loneliness that I would feel if I had absolutely nobody, but I do feel a bit sad and wishing I had some real true friends who were like family. I do really envy people with big friendship groups, and close friends who they seem to love like family, and socialise with/go away with etc.... I also envy people who have a big solid extended family around them.

I did actually have this at one time right up to my mid 40s. Apart from a large-ish extended family of aunts, uncles, and cousins, and grandparents etc, I had groups of work colleagues who I socialised with, neighbours who I socialised with, groups of friends I went to nightclubs with, (and on holiday with,) and groups of mum friends when my children were younger... But not anymore. Stopped when my children hit mid teens.

As I said, I think it's the same for a lot of people. As you get older, it's incredibly hard to make friends and keep them. I'm at peace with it though and I don't care too much now. I don't have many people in my life to depend on or do anything for me, but then I don't have many people in my life who I have to do anything for either. I don't have to put with people taking the piss out of me, using me, and moaning, and having to do things for them. Sadly, most people I've found just use you, and/or shit on you/treat you badly. It's a sad way to think but that's life. That has been my experience with the majority of people I have ever met.

.

I get it, over the past 3 years I’ve found myself single again and parent less. No other family apart from grown children with their own lives and one brother who lives abroad.

clubs are great however most there are not lonely, single people, I sat in my craft club in silence a lot of the time because the conversations are dominated by husband chit chat and what to do with their elderly parents..I come from there feeling even more profoundly alone. Summer holidays are the worst, family get together in gardens, museums and national trust properties full of families and couples, I got asked once by staff what I was doing at one of these places on my own once as I stuck out like a sore thumb! Haven’t gone out since. Do I really look that dodgy 😂.

All I can suggest is find a way to be at peace with the loneliness, I try and get out for a walk most days and personally I can’t wait for the colder weather to come as most of the families won’t be about and no boozy lunches in the garden

@Pixiedust49 - how did things improve for you? It might be helpful for the Op to know if you feel able to share

@GreenPoppy oh gosh, I'm sorry and I know the feeling too. I never felt like a full family member. It went as far as aunts and cousins only sending invites for big birthdays or so to whoever was a couple and I got informed via my parents. Back when postcards from holiday were still a thing I was frequently forgotten about too. It just hurts but I now understand that it was always part of something bigger. I was the family scapegoat and everyone participated.

I can't say it no longer hurts but I'm glad I no longer have any of them in my life.

@MistressoftheDarkSide and hoping things improve for you soon.

for you too @CobaltQueen . As many of the responses on here show, you're not alone in this situation. I think modern life, while making us much more connected technologically, really has witnessed the breakdown of traditional communities and networks where everyone had a place, should they want it.

I'm not going to make any suggestions but please hold on to the the knowledge that you are worthy and things can get better.

Maybe we should be friends then as nice and polite isn't what I'm looking for either 😂 I gravitate to the more quirky and unusual.

I do agree at the start it will be superficial in terms of you are just getting to know one another but if that other person isn't interested in making friends then there's not a lot you can do.

I find people are so busy they don't want/cant do the heavy lifting of a budding relationship. I am also busy I have small children I have limited energy and capacity right now so both is OK. I know its not impossible but for lots of us it's really not easy especially when other elements of you life can be so hard going. That's what can be exhausting.

The friendship I need right now isn't one I'm entitled to right now. I'm only going to get entry level superficial and if I don't find the right person and put the right amount of energy its not going to grow into that. Part of that's on me. Part of that is also like aligning the stars. It's easy to see (for me) how people are lonely and don't have the energy or luck/life circumstances to change it.

Lots of us here are just saying right now that's how it is and it's rubbish.

I 100% agree and sympathise.

I think being on your own is fine if you are A) a natural extrovert who could go to a salsa class or activity holiday by yourself or B) a natural introvert who loves time alone. But lots of people who find themselves in your situation are neither.

I’ll admit that I am B so I do find it easier. I’m also lucky to have a supportive family (albeit not close by) and long-term friends (again albeit not close by). Even then, I do sometimes experience aspects of what you describe especially as I wfh in an isolated role.

If I didn’t (largely) enjoy solitude, I’d probably get a pet because I love animals. This may or may not be relevant to you.

With hobbies, I’d focus on things you actually like/want to do rather than the stereotypical activities to meet people. That way it’s easier to create a bond with people over a shared passion and doing something you love is great for mental health.

So, not much advice, OP - just to say it’s not your fault and anyone could find themselves in this position. Also, nothing stays the same for ever - so this lonely phase of your life is not necessarily permanent