To think many people don't understand true loneliness?

I've been thinking about this thread a lot today. Having said that technology can make society more fragmented, I'm not entirely sure I've been fair.

At one point after I was widowed, I was using Facebook a lot (it was a while ago!) A friend of a RL friend dropped a Molesworth quote (those who know, know) I responded, and we friended each other. Although because of circumstances, largely distance, we haven't yet met in person, it is a rare week that we don't talk on the phone/whatsapp/email at least once, usually much more. We became very close and have supported each other through good times and bad. We just clicked.

I'm not saying this is a total answer but as proof that there can be good, genuine online friendships made, often without the expectations and issues that can interfere in face to face situations. Finding an interest where you are more likely to meet the like minded online isn't a bad idea, I don't think, and the pool is much bigger.

*dread weekends

I was in this situation a few years ago. I used to dress weekends spent alone.

I joined walking groups, meet up groups, went salsa dancing, joined Facebook social groups, played badminton, joined the gym. It was really, and I mean really, hard work for quite a long time, especially as I am naturally shy, and I remember wondering if and when the work I was putting in would pay off, but it did.

I now have lots of friends I see regularly. Some are closer than others but my social life is crazy busy.

You have to put the work in. Friends don't just appear. It is hard work but persist, don't give up after a few weeks - it takes time.

Go and volunteer somewhere at weekends. Try a few.
Try a women's club .
Church even if you aren't religious. You will meet people and make friends.

@Commonblue ”I remain hopeful that as we have a more of an awareness of loneliness and the impact it has on others that change might happen slowly.”

I’m interested to know how you think a change might come about. I spent a long time thinking it was my fault before realising how big a problem it is for so many people so if there’s any sense of change, it would be interesting to hear.

I will look for the series you mention.

pp mentioned parents and grandparents having friends and that’s a big social change that I notice too. Can’t speak for others but I had two working busy parents who always thought friendship was important.

In the art gallery, we talked for a while, exchanged phone numbers, she texted immediately afterwards to offer us a lift home (it was snowing, I had an unimpressed seven year old, and we were renting while househunting in a distant suburb), I said no thanks as I had to do something en route but very kind of her to offer, and in return she invited us for lunch the next weekend we were free — sorry, it was Sunday lunch. I think we both felt on the same wavelength, both worked in arts, both returned emigrants etc. that was just before Covid.

Under tree in thunderstorm friend, we talked, exchanged numbers, she ran off when rain eased (had dogs that were terrified of thunder), texted her the next day about the gig having to stop as amp exploded, and we made a coffee date, got on well, and have seen one another regularly since, for a drink, occasional book event. That was July 2023.

@surfacelevelstuff

Totally agree about the dog. Mine were adorable and loving little companions but really tied me down. There's no ability to be spontaneous.

It's more isolating than not.

Not much to add that hasn't been said but, I am in a similar position, live alone, partner is long distance see each other every few weeks but going nowhere. I should end it, but if I do that I am just more alone aren't I?

I have a local pub that I go to. I know people in there and feel welcome.

I have friends in a different city but all at different stages in life.

I have never married or had children.
Me and my Mum are great but my Dad and I do not talk.
I am good company by all accounts, good fun, helpful, happy-I was a model until my late thirties, I know I am not hideous. I am a therapist and have two degrees-so it isn't that I am stupid either. No real reason that I've been left alone other than happenstance, and I am not autistic before anyone suggests that

One thing I will say is I am not so sure regarding the several suggestions of 'get a dog'.

I have a dog. I adore her. She's great company, she makes people talk to me when we're out, she's beautiful and everyone wants to pet her. She's also huge-meaning if I do go out of an evening (to the pub or parents who live nearby) I am safe to do so.

BUT.
I can't just nip off to see friends, go to an event, go to a new hobby that's more than a few hours.
I can't take myself off overnight if someone does want to spend time together
I can't see my partner as often as I often do not have anyone to have her.

In short, dogs are fabulous but they can make your life even more isolated, in other ways-be careful if you're thinking of doing that.

This, and it's terrifying.
I also utterly hate winter, it feels even more lonely.
I am going to try a couple of things from this thread though, and OP, if you're still reading, I'd like to send a pm if that's OK?
I'm actually about to go away for a week, yes, on my own, and I know I'll love it, it's the day to day life at home I struggle with, which is obviously the vast majority of the time.

I want to thank you OP for starting this thread and those that have contributed. I really don't have much advice to offer other than what others have posted but I think there's been some great posts on this thread with advice and hope.

Some people can think having a partner, kids, siblings and family can alleviate loneliness and many people have posted on this thread they have things and still lonely. I really don't know what the answer is to it all. There's so many factors that contribute to lonelieness and I don't think our current societal way of thinking helps. We work long hours, things are too expensive, work from home and we can become insular and not socialise as much as we like too. Many places that people would have previously gone to like community centres, sports centres and libaries have cloesed too.

And I can see how this happens myself. I have toddler and work full time as I have no other option but too. I'd love to get to know my neighbours who have kids similar ages but find it hard to get the time to do so. It's hard as well when many of us have such little energy or time to build on connections but I realise these connections entail effort and commitment.

The guardian did a series on lonlieness and there was a lot of articles I found interesting both from professionals and people who had experienced it I found helpful. I remain hopeful that as we have a more of an awareness of loneliness and the impact it has on others that change might happen slowly.

Just wanted to add that I know you’re struggling OP but please can I suggest you join a gym and try lane swimming. It’s a very relaxing activity that works wonders for your physical and mental health. An added bonus is that you have little chats with people you see regularly but if at any point you feel uncomfortable/awkward you can politely end the conversation and swim off. If you become friendly with someone it’s easy to just meet up for another exercise activity like a group walk or coffee. I feel like exercise would make you happier in yourself, those endorphins are powerful.

I understand and sympathise OP. I don’t have many people either and certainly no family as such as what I do have are abroad and seem to have forgotten I exist. It’s difficult and I do have kids and a husband. The kids now do their own thing and my husband and I have nothing in common. It’s incredibly lonely sitting in the same room as someone you love and just co existing. I know I’m lucky to have these people but I can still understand what you mean. Please don’t think that everyone living with a family aren’t really lonely because that’s not necessarily true. I’m not saying it’s the same, but it’s a different kind of loneliness, one that can also hurt so much. Being alone is lonely, but being in a room full of people and still feeling utterly alone is also dreadful.

I have known such a deep loneliness each second was like a minute and each hour as long as a day . My first 4 day Easter bank Holiday alone was so painful and dragged like a week . Car doors slamming and familys calling hello to each other, friends visiting neighbours , and I sat listening and waiting and hoping. The drag inside my body heart and soul had no words to describe . Since then I've had many similar weekends and holiday weekends. Going for a walk seems pointless as you come back into the sadness and , even walking , it walks beside you . But over the years I prayed for help and it took many prayers and many many years , days of working so hard and really early nights in bed before the dragging pain of loneliness abated . Now I'm old and have learned to be with myself , the pain and loss thankfully gone . Somehow one gets used to it , it becomes part of normal life . I feel for you because I understand x

@Meadowwild

I shifted my attitude about friendship. I just decided to go out and do stuff and not try to make friends - the purpose was to be active and engaged with the world, not to get friendship. To do things that were good for me - getting and keeping fit, learning new skills, helping in the community etc. It takes the pressure off if you don't try and make friends from it.

Exactly this.

If you treat every person you get on with as if you are interviewing for a new BFF you are frankly going to scare people off. Whereas if you treat everyone as someone you can have fun with but with minimal pressure you can relax and enjoy it and that actually makes you much more attractive and likeable.

Its not that different from the psychology of dating. If everyone you meet is potentially “the one” you are putting far more significance and pressure into these relationships than is helpful.

At the early stages the lighter everything is, the better.

I understand you. I hear you and i feel you. Its fucking horrible. I feel the exact same.

I’m so sorry you feel that way. I certainly don’t understand how that feels, because I can’t stand being around people! But I can feel sad that you’re hurting. And yes, people’s blasé ‘solutions’ are infuriating, no matter what the problem or issue is!

It is awful to be craving human interaction but not have anybody in your life.
Im lucky in that even though Im alone most of the time Im never lonely, lucky to be one of those self sufficient types!

It isnt just you though OP. Making friends becomes harder and harder the older we get. Keeping them also as peoples lives move in different directions.
I know it may seem trite to suggest joining clubs or volunteering but the truth is friends dont magically appear and if you want to find them and maintain friendships you need common interests. It sucks if you are shy or anxious but you really do have to put yourself out there.
I would also suggest getting a pet. Obviously only if you have the time, inclination and right situation for it but a dog or cat (or bird or ferret!) can give you someone to talk to, a routine, and a warm body to cuddle! I can live without people but my life would be much sadder without a dog or cat.

I am sorry OP and I hope that you are still reading . Ignore those that have never been in your position and are being insensitive .

I think others have tried their best to offer suggestions but I realise some of these will be off the mark even if well intentioned .

I am not in your position currently but have been in the past and will no doubt be so in the future .

I do think a lot of people just do not get true loneliness as they would always have the default position of close family . Not everyone is in that position as they may have experienced bereavements or have strained relationships with family members due to no fault of their own .

It is difficult not having a default person or persons who you can have a connection with .
I do think covid has also been very detrimental for socialisation for both young and old . A lot of us have lost social skills and not been very good at keeping up / connecting with friends .

Social media can be such a curse as it does look like everyone else is living their best life but as you will know it is sometimes all " smoke and mirrors ".

I was very painfully shy when younger and although I would sometimes join group activities / one off events it sometimes made you feel lonelier . As some would be there with another and I would feel more lonely and would not have the social skills / confidence to strike up conversations . It is easy to come across as " stand offish " when you don't have the social skills / confidence .

Mumsnet can be a mixed bag with people who are kind and thoughtful but there are others who for whatever reason are not . There are also others who try to be helpful but can come across as insensitive just because they don't have any insight into an individual's position . I think we can all be guilty of that .

If you find yourself sitting on your own watching a tv series or event but feel lonely as you don't have anyone to talk to in real life there are sometimes "live " chats here where people comment as things unfold. Recent ones have been the Olympics opening events and sometimes popular tv series on terrestrial tv .

I hope you can keep posting or at the very least keep reading .Take care .

@CobaltQueen there's a woman I see occasionally where I live and she's always alone but looks very happy whenever I see her. I experienced the sort of loneliness you describe when I was cheated on and sort of looked up to her as she was clearly coping by herself, when I wasn't. Your post has made me wonder if this woman, like you, hides her loneliness well.

I get it. True loneliness is having no clue who will take care of funeral arrangements when you're gone or who will even mourn for you.

I literally have no idea.

That is a lovely and true post, @Meadowwild and exactly what I attempt to do. Spend more time out in the world.

I'm sorry OP. Loneliness is brutal and horrible. Telling people to join a class etc is well meant but it doesn't really help. I've experienced it and trying to meet people was so hard, meet up events were dominated by the same very unpleasant woman, and work colleagues meant well but ultimately had their own families and friendships. I volunteered as a Samaritan and loneliness was the biggest cause of calling. It can happen to any one of us.

No advice but I really hope you can meet some like minded people. Volunteering is something I would echo as a suggestion, when I moved to a new city it really helped me meet new people (I even met my DH!).

Sending you unMN hugs.

The thing is, tough as it is, we have to act to change this.

I shifted my attitude about friendship. I just decided to go out and do stuff and not try to make friends - the purpose was to be active and engaged with the world, not to get friendship. To do things that were good for me - getting and keeping fit, learning new skills, helping in the community etc. It takes the pressure off if you don't try and make friends from it.

The next shift was to value shallow friendship more. I used to only value deep friendship. But I decided to appreciate a quick wave and smile from an acquaintance, or a quick after-workout small talk coffee that never, in years, went further than that. It is a friendship of sorts.

And the third thing was to ditch people pleasing. To be a bit more true to myself - let out the occasional swear word or unpopular opinion (or any opinion, instead of being bland!) Not being a loud mouth or holding court, just being honest. I found this fast tracked some friendships.

But the reverse is true of other friendships. I have a very dear friend who I have a couple of things in common with. Apart from those two things we have nothing in common. Completely different attitudes to politics, nothing in common in how we live our lives. I choose, when with her, to just concentrate on our shared interests and I suspect she does the same with me. That way we stay friends.

@CobaltQueen You deserve to have a less lonely life. You deserve friends. But friendships can take years to grow. In the meantime, you deserve a rich and full and active life, and you can allow yourself that.If you take the pressure off doing things in order to make friends and turn it into life experience and things that interest you or that you value, you will spend more time out in the world, making your mark, coming into contact with others. And it is far easier to make connections if you are out there doing stuff than home alone again and again. I know it is hard to find the impetus. But it is easier if you get rid of the idea that you are doing things to make friends or find love. Doing them for their own sake is the best way to start.

It's also worth keeping an open mind about who might become a good friend. I get on really well with my neighbour who is 30 years older than me. We're not best friends, but chat lots and over time have started being quite open with each other about what's going on in our lives. It turns out we have a lot in common in terms of life experiences even though on paper we couldn't be more different.

Similarly one of my friends has very strong views on veganism that don't align with mine (I eat meat) yet we manage to agree to disagree and even go to lunch happily. We have other things in common instead.

So going to activities where you have things in common can help but friendships can end up being much more random than that

@blackheartsgirl I am so sorry your loss and what an incredibly tough time you are going through. I think you are very brave.