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Original poster

Contributions from (pensioner) MIL to household

285 replies

PaterPower · 19/08/2024 15:30

My MIL has been living with my partner (her DD) and I for about 18 months.

When she first moved in, we set contributions at £400pm. She was still in the process of selling her property and had ongoing bills, so fair enough. She agreed at the time that her contribution would go up once the sale completed. That happened about 2 months ago.

We reminded her on Friday about the promise to up what she was paying. She’s declared that she “doesn’t agree” that she should, mainly based on my DP’s DD (her granddaughter, early 20s) paying less. We’re not charging my DSD much because she’s trying to save a deposit and she’s not on a massive salary (but does work FT).

My MIL’s £400 goes a long way. We cook for her, change her bed linen, provide support on admin tasks, take her to her (many) medical appointments, shopping trips when she wants to go out and it covers all her food, electricity, our additional heating costs etc - basically everything.

She has mobility issues and can no longer cook anything more than a microwave meal (and even that only with some help). She helps load and put the laundry on and she will help with loading and unloading the dishwasher on occasion. She’ll occasionally wipe down the kitchen tops. I don’t begrudge what she does and doesn’t do, just adding it for context.

Her regular income from various pensions is good - she’s not scraping around for money, particularly now that 99% of her monthly outgoings stopped with the sale of her property.

AIBU for asking for an increase in her payment to £600 pm?

OP posts:
Justmuddlingalong · 19/08/2024 21:56

I would increase her rent. And tell her it'll be reassessed going forward.
Ensure she's aware that should her care needs become too great for you, residential care could become a possibility in future.
You're not threatening her, but being clear that the future is uncertain and that you and your family can't be expected to be responsible for her welfare if it becomes too much.

JuicyBlueberry · 19/08/2024 21:22

I'm only in my 50s but I am extremely physically unwell. I can't even bend my legs for water retention, let alone stand up for more than a few minutes. I'm as weak as fuck, unsafe with hot or sharp things and even need help with bathing etc. My husband has to do all what you do and more. The care he takes of me is beyond anything you could ever expect of a paid carer. That's the difference love makes. Maybe, you need to remind your MIL of that difference. She needs a firm dose of reality because it's all too easy to get used to be looked after and develop a sense of entitlement.

She ungrateful, delusional and very much needs the wake up call so many have suggested here. Remember to pre-warn your partner over any plans to tackle your MIL though as you don't want to blindside her and surprise her into defending her mum. You need to be a united front.

You also need to tell your MIL that she is not your child, nor stepchild, so stop comparing her status with that of her own grandchild within your home.

itsmylife7 · 19/08/2024 21:01

So what's she doing with all her extra money if she's only paying £400 per month.

rookiemere · 19/08/2024 20:53

I like what @anyolddinosaur is saying about holidays and carers. Have you had the chance to have a holiday since she has moved in?

I disagree that DSD should be charged the same rent . The circumstances are totally different what with the provision of meals and driving,plus MIL agreed to pay more when she moved and is reneging on that.

AndSoFinally · 19/08/2024 20:42

There's quite a lot of side benefits you can claim, other than AA/CA. Reductions in your water rates for example

anyolddinosaur · 19/08/2024 18:36

She will be paying quite a lot of tax, unless you were quoting post tax rates. Still she can afford to pay you a lot more and in her situation I would be doing so. She may see this as you making a profit from her living with you, instead of you being paid for providing care. She may also be trying to build up extra funds over and above the proceeds of the house sale in case she needs to move into a home.

Many people dont like to accept that they can no longer do things. Perhaps you need to take a holiday and arrange for temporary carers that she pays for. I agree with the idea of getting an assessment from adult services so when you do need a break you know what care needs to be bought in. I think this would help persuade her to pay more.

LookItsMeAgain · 19/08/2024 18:29

I 100% agree with @Meadowfinch and @Werweisswohin and I think you should price up what it would cost her to be in assisted living vs what she is paying you. I'd even suggest asking for £750 but with a bit of wiggle room for her to negotiate you down to say £650!

I also agree that what your DSD pays is of zero relevance here because unless your DSD needs you to do a fraction of what you're doing for MiL, then it's all about what you're doing and offering to MiL. Think of it this way - if you were a landlord and you had two rooms to let out in a house, one with an ensuite and one without - you don't charge the same rental for the room that is without the ensuite (what you're doing for your DSD) as you would for the one with (what you're doing for MiL).

That's my take on it.

larklane17 · 19/08/2024 18:03

I agree with @IfItWereMe, you need a proper benefits assessment to help you out, She can't claim PIP AND Attendance Allowance.
Also an assessment for you as carers and for her as the cared for, from your local Adult Services
You sound such a good person. She really needs to up her payments tbh.

Original poster
PaterPower · 19/08/2024 18:03

IfItWereMe · 19/08/2024 17:53

OP, I realise you have a lot on your plate but I’m going to repeat it.. you really need a proper benefits assessment check. I think you have carers allowance and attendance allowance all mixed up. Carers Allowance which the carer applies for, will not be available to you if you both Work and earn over the threshold of about £150. Attendance Allowance is non-means tested and is applied for by, and paid to, the person being cared for. They then use that money to pay for Care.
You really really need a proper benefits check. I know it doesn’t address the wider issues ( I believe your mother-in-law should be contributing substantially more) but it would be a health. Best wishes

Show quote history

Attendance allowance is not paid if the person receives PIP; I’ve just checked via gov.uk.

The expectation, I would guess, is that any care is paid for out of PIP - it’s one or the other, which makes some sense but doesn’t help here. In any case, it’s not really a lack of benefits at the root of this. She HAS the money.

We did have someone out when she first came to live with us and all they could suggest (and provide via the NHS) was a couple of walking aids. We had already made adaptations to our house for her. Wouldn’t hurt to check again, I suppose, but we’re reasonably sure she’s / we’re not due anything else.

OP posts:
IfItWereMe · 19/08/2024 17:53

PaterPower · 19/08/2024 17:32

My DP and her sister have POA. My MIL is getting, with PIP, State pension and a couple of private ones, over 2K per month. Plus there’s the house proceeds generating interest now. She’s no longer paying council tax, utilities, food bills, insurance or pretty much anything else. Her only regular outgoing is a mobile phone contract (and the £400).

We did look at attendance allowance but I think we concluded it wasn’t an option. I can’t remember why not, but both DP and I work FT (nights and WFH respectively) so it may have been because on paper we’re working too many hours, whereas the reality is that we both provide care for her around our jobs (like many thousands of others do - I’m not saying we’re anything special in that regard).

OP, I realise you have a lot on your plate but I’m going to repeat it.. you really need a proper benefits assessment check. I think you have carers allowance and attendance allowance all mixed up. Carers Allowance which the carer applies for, will not be available to you if you both Work and earn over the threshold of about £150. Attendance Allowance is non-means tested and is applied for by, and paid to, the person being cared for. They then use that money to pay for Care.
You really really need a proper benefits check. I know it doesn’t address the wider issues ( I believe your mother-in-law should be contributing substantially more) but it would be a health. Best wishes

QueenofLouisiana · 19/08/2024 17:48

I pay £110 a week for DS in a private house at uni. This includes bills, but not insurance, so add about another £5 a week for that. Add 1/4 of council tax so about £70 a week.

So, with my rough calculations based on a (very) affordable town I am on £550 ish a month.

Add on food at about £150 a month, petrol for car and I think you’d comfortably be on £780. Then start on caring costs….. I think it’s fair to say that she’s onto a winner on £600/ month.

Elizo · 19/08/2024 17:46

This is really tricky. Is the money to contribute to the mortgage or what is the situation? I’m not sure I would take money for a mortgage, or not much. If I was renting then absolutely, or if I was losing money in some way, ie not taking a lodger. I would take a contribution to bills. This might just be me though. I don’t like the way the GM argues about it because of SD, if you asked and she can afford it she definitely should pay…

Original poster
PaterPower · 19/08/2024 17:41

Georgyporky · 19/08/2024 17:39

So her 2 daughters have POA ?

They have control of her money so surely they can pay a reasonable sum to your household?

It doesn’t work like that. She still has mental capacity. You can’t (or shouldn’t) take over finances when she’s still able to make her own decisions.

OP posts:
Original poster
PaterPower · 19/08/2024 17:39

IfItWereMe · 19/08/2024 17:30

OP, I suggest you have a proper benefits check.PIP is paid to the person who has the disability. It is non-means tested and is not taken into account in the calculation of other benefits. Carers Allowance is paid to the person who is caring. It is taken into account if the Carer is receiving other benefits for example universal credit or state pension and in that case there would be a reduction of the carers benefits/pension. What age is your MIL? PIP is not normally awarded to someone over pension age.
I would also strongly advise your MIL applying for attendance allowance. It is also non-means tested. Our family have been in a similar situation and my in law insisted on pay ing much much more than your MIL does now because they understood it was much less than they would have been paying for Carers.

Show quote history

She’s had PIP for many years due to ongoing health issues. She did get the extra bit that allowed her to get a car on Motability, but they withdrew that after a (dodgy as hell) assessment and appeal. That was a few years ago, but she still gets upset that they took it off her.

Frankly it was probably a blessing, as she’d be a danger to life on the roads on the very few days she’d still be physically capable of driving.

OP posts:
Georgyporky · 19/08/2024 17:39

So her 2 daughters have POA ?

They have control of her money so surely they can pay a reasonable sum to your household?

Original poster
PaterPower · 19/08/2024 17:32

My DP and her sister have POA. My MIL is getting, with PIP, State pension and a couple of private ones, over 2K per month. Plus there’s the house proceeds generating interest now. She’s no longer paying council tax, utilities, food bills, insurance or pretty much anything else. Her only regular outgoing is a mobile phone contract (and the £400).

We did look at attendance allowance but I think we concluded it wasn’t an option. I can’t remember why not, but both DP and I work FT (nights and WFH respectively) so it may have been because on paper we’re working too many hours, whereas the reality is that we both provide care for her around our jobs (like many thousands of others do - I’m not saying we’re anything special in that regard).

OP posts:
IfItWereMe · 19/08/2024 17:30

PaterPower · 19/08/2024 17:14

Her PIP payment means carer’s allowance isn’t an option (they take one off the other, from what we’ve read).

Show quote history

OP, I suggest you have a proper benefits check.PIP is paid to the person who has the disability. It is non-means tested and is not taken into account in the calculation of other benefits. Carers Allowance is paid to the person who is caring. It is taken into account if the Carer is receiving other benefits for example universal credit or state pension and in that case there would be a reduction of the carers benefits/pension. What age is your MIL? PIP is not normally awarded to someone over pension age.
I would also strongly advise your MIL applying for attendance allowance. It is also non-means tested. Our family have been in a similar situation and my in law insisted on pay ing much much more than your MIL does now because they understood it was much less than they would have been paying for Carers.

SuperstarDJsherewego · 19/08/2024 17:28

It's important that if she is still quite well your partner looks into getting power of attorney for finances and/or for health. They are two separate things now. If her dementia progresses and POA isnt in place it can take months for the court of protection to go through to get access to her money. This is important if she ends up needing a residential care placement. The POA for health is nice to have but if your partner is next of kin she should be consulted about her mothers care if her dementia worsens.
edited for typos

Original poster
PaterPower · 19/08/2024 17:18

Mainoo72 · 19/08/2024 16:37

What’s her monthly income?

Personally I wouldn’t charge my DM more than a nominal amount to live with me, but that’s my own view. My DF only lived for 3 years following a dementia diagnosis, so she may not have long left sadly.

TBH, the initial decision was just along the lines of “shit, she can’t continue living like this” (because she wasn’t able to look after herself properly), rather than any sort of analysis / deep discussion of the costs.

The dementia diagnosis was later (probably about 8 months ago or so). We didn’t get to that immediately because there was so much else going on with her physically.

Some of the problem is she has no memory whatsoever of the state she was in at that time. It’s literally a complete blank to her.

OP posts:
Timeforaglassofwine · 19/08/2024 17:15

Another thing to remember, with you saying she hadn't been expected to have much longer to live, your dh will probably get the inheritance from the sale of her home? So unless she is actually costing you more than the £400, you could leave it, knowing you'll get the inheritance in the long run anyway. I'm not trying to be cold, just pragmatic.

Original poster
PaterPower · 19/08/2024 17:14

3beesinmybonnet · 19/08/2024 16:14

I'm not up to date with benefits but have you looked into Carers Allowance?

And yes she should be paying more than £400 pcm

Her PIP payment means carer’s allowance isn’t an option (they take one off the other, from what we’ve read).

OP posts:
Original poster
PaterPower · 19/08/2024 17:12

Icanthinkformyselfthanks · 19/08/2024 16:08

@PaterPower , have you and your partner discussed with your MIL what will happen when the care you provide is no longer sufficient? More to the point have you and your partner thought about her ever increasing needs?
She may be conscious of wanting to have enough money left in reserve to pay carers when that time comes.
Are you and is she aware that regular gifts out of income are (at present) not part of an estate when someone dies? So no inheritance tax to be paid.
Old people often get a bit fearful because they are vulnerable I suppose. You all need to sit and have a chat.

We have, but not recently and it probably is overdue again.

As I commented upthread, when she came to live with us she was asleep 18 hours a day on average. We honestly thought she had about 6 months to live, she was in a hell of state physically. That changed, largely because we’ve fed and looked after her properly and got her medications changed.

But, as she’s got physically better, she
a) can’t remember how bad she’d got and
b) thinks she could live independently.

The reality is that she couldn’t. Not without a lot of expensive third party support. But she doesn’t / hasn’t acknowledged that.

I’ll talk to DP again tonight and suggest we have a more in depth conversation

OP posts:
DadJoke · 19/08/2024 17:09

Tell her you understand the objection and you’ll charge DSD the same. If she’s OK with that, follow the advice about putting money aside.

If she still objects, then that’s not the real issue. Tell her that it’s fair enough that she doesn’t want to pay any more and she can live elsewhere. You’ll help her find somewhere.

Honestly, your DP should be doing this, not you.

Timeforaglassofwine · 19/08/2024 16:57

The only fair thing to do is split the actual costs by 4, accounting for each adult in the home, and she pays her 1/4. Have a look at PIP, if she is in a position where she needs more and more care, she can claim somewhere around the £90 per week mark, which will cover your extra expenses. Ideally do this before her dementia deteriorates. You can't charge extra for doing her admin, helping her etc, her son should do that anyway.
Edited to add - make sure someone close gets power of attorney - not to get her money, but to make sure her affairs are looked after. It might be better if this was a relative outside of the home, so that you don't have a conflict of interests.