Page 3 | Contributions from (pensioner) MIL to household

PaterPower · 2024-08-19T14:30:35+00:00

My MIL has been living with my partner (her DD) and I for about 18 months. When she first moved in, we set contributions at £400pm. She was still in the process of selling her property and had ongoing bills, so fair enough. She agreed at the time that her contribution would go up once the sale completed. That happened about 2 months ago. We reminded her on Friday about the promise to up what she was paying. She’s declared that she “doesn’t agree” that she should, mainly based on my DP’s DD (her granddaughter, early 20s) paying less. We’re not charging my DSD much because she’s trying to save a deposit and she’s not on a massive salary (but does work FT). My MIL’s £400 goes a long way. We cook for her, change her bed linen, provide support on admin tasks, take her to her (many) medical appointments, shopping trips when she wants to go out and it covers all her food, electricity, our additional heating costs etc - basically everything. She has mobility issues and can no longer cook anything more than a microwave meal (and even that only with some help). She helps load and put the laundry on and she will help with loading and unloading the dishwasher on occasion. She’ll occasionally wipe down the kitchen tops. I don’t begrudge what she does and doesn’t do, just adding it for context. Her regular income from various pensions is good - she’s not scraping around for money, particularly now that 99% of her monthly outgoings stopped with the sale of her property. AIBU for asking for an increase in her payment to £600 pm?

Iwasafool · 25/08/2024 09:23

Butwhybecause · 24/08/2024 22:22

Is it worth more than PIP though?

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No I don't think it is, once you are a pensioner you can't start a claim for PIP and attendance allowance and doesn't include mobility so no claim for that and no free VED.

Summerpigeon · 25/08/2024 09:21

£200 a week sounds fair ..
There's always rest homes .
My mum's rest home is £7000 a month

5128gap · 25/08/2024 08:20

CosyLemur · 25/08/2024 00:18

I think she should pay equal to whatever you DSD pays - regardless of saving for a deposit.
If you'd kick your MIL for not paying as much as a care home would cost, you should be charging your DSD whatever private rent would cost!

Family arrangements aren't commercial where the same services cost each person the same. They are mutually beneficial arrangements where financial benefit sits side by side with meeting each person's individual needs in accordance with their means. This would imo translate as a proportionate contribution from each person based on their income and their own needs. So an adult child with significant expenses such as saving for a deposit has greater need than an older person with only personal spending to cover, and a person with a higher income is able to contribute more to the family pot than one on a lower one.

Original poster

PaterPower · 25/08/2024 05:18

CosyLemur · 25/08/2024 00:18

I think she should pay equal to whatever you DSD pays - regardless of saving for a deposit.
If you'd kick your MIL for not paying as much as a care home would cost, you should be charging your DSD whatever private rent would cost!

You really think the two situations are the same? Really?

And I appreciate that some PPs have suggested we push her into sheltered accommodation (probably tongue in cheek in some cases) but DP and I haven’t contemplated that, nor would we.

(Unless her medical needs change so dramatically that it would be unsafe / worse for her medically to continue living with us).

OP posts:

CosyLemur · 25/08/2024 00:18

I think she should pay equal to whatever you DSD pays - regardless of saving for a deposit.
If you'd kick your MIL for not paying as much as a care home would cost, you should be charging your DSD whatever private rent would cost!

Butwhybecause · 24/08/2024 22:22

Iwasafool · 24/08/2024 19:27

She gets PIP so no AA.

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Is it worth more than PIP though?

Butwhybecause · 24/08/2024 22:20

Iwasafool · 24/08/2024 19:27

She gets PIP so no AA.

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Oh, ok.

Missed that!

saraclara · 24/08/2024 20:15

Yep, it's extraordinary that people are accusing OP of being selfish. I could never have taken my own mother in, and though my MIL was wonderful, i still couldn't have done the kind of caring that she needed.

OP is a good egg, imo.

Ncjr · 24/08/2024 20:02

Mysinglepringle · 24/08/2024 18:05

Because she's a vulnerable elderly adult and I don't see why they should financially benefit from her decling health and old age. Like I said, work out what its costing them financially for her to live there and ask for that. Perhaps you could give examples that relate to this situation, and not ones don't? "Obviously" dont?

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There will be a lot of people on this thread looking at it from experience. I have a close family member who decimated their savings, barely slept land now lives on a basic pension after being a round the clock at home carer.
They are not benefitting from it, OP made that clear. It can be an expensive, exhausting and mentally and emotionally draining process, at times, caring for someone you love dearly while struggling to do so and feeling awful for feeling that way.
I've seen it happen so often that I wouldn't do it myself, and commend OP and her partner for doing it.

Chonk · 24/08/2024 19:52

Mysinglepringle · 24/08/2024 18:05

Because she's a vulnerable elderly adult and I don't see why they should financially benefit from her decling health and old age. Like I said, work out what its costing them financially for her to live there and ask for that. Perhaps you could give examples that relate to this situation, and not ones don't? "Obviously" dont?

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You need me to spoon-feed you examples of other bills whereby paying only for her own usage means she's not contributing fairly to the full bill? I'd have thought you could work that out for yourself...any bills with a standing charge for a start. A partner with capacity and funds would be expected to contribute proportionately. It's reasonable for the MIL to contribute proportionately too.

CharlotteRumpling · 24/08/2024 19:29

WIW I don't charge my adult DCs when they live at home for periods of time, but there isn't enough money in the world to persuade me to have my MIL live with me in my home for 18 months, I would literally move out. Perhaps it just depends on how close the relationship is in the first place…

I wouldn't be able to live with my MIL as she is rather a difficult woman. I only think I will be able to live with my mum as she is lovely and easygoing, has done a lot for me, DH adores her and so do the DC. We shall have to see.

I think I would be able to charge my DC easier than my mum because they are young and can earn money? Also they eat and spend a lot more! At the moment I am hoping to charge no one.

Iwasafool · 24/08/2024 19:27

Butwhybecause · 24/08/2024 17:52

Attendance Allowance: Lower rate - £72.65
Carer's Allowance: £81.90

By my reckoning that's £152.55 per week
(I could be wrong!)

Edited

She gets PIP so no AA.

Original poster

PaterPower · 24/08/2024 19:21

To answer a few of the less aggressive questions…

MIL gets PIP, and attendance allowance isn’t possible. We might be eligible for the council tax reduction and we’ve actually emailed in to enquire about that - thanks to whoever first suggested that.
My DP had the initial and most recent conversations with her DM. Not prompted by me.
I do most of the running around and non-personal care that’s required. It’s just that way because I wfh so I’m here during the day, when DP will usually be asleep due to night shifts.
I don’t begrudge my MIL anything. I didn’t have to agree to her moving in, as my DP made clear at the time. Had I said no, she/we would have found sheltered accommodation for her. It would have had to be pretty ‘high touch’ because, at that point, she was not at all in a good way. Frankly I don’t think she’d have recovered the way she has in a nursing home. I think they’d have kept giving her the same drug regime and she’d have nose dived / died within months. But what would I know, eh? I’m clearly just in it for the money 🙄
My username is pretty long standing and was originally a tongue in cheek reference to Jacob Rees Mogg and his ilk. I found it funny at the time. You don’t have to, (in fact I couldn’t give two shits what you think of it), but there’s nothing “sinister” about why I chose it.

I accept some of PP’s comments about dementia and resulting attitudes to money. We attended a few local sessions for family looking after parents with dementia. Many were looking after parents with much more advanced issues.

Neither DP nor I are naive to what may lie ahead, and that more advanced care (than we can provide at home) may become necessary. That’s, we believe, a way off though.

OP posts:

thing47 · 24/08/2024 19:21

Mysinglepringle · 24/08/2024 18:05

Because she's a vulnerable elderly adult and I don't see why they should financially benefit from her decling health and old age. Like I said, work out what its costing them financially for her to live there and ask for that. Perhaps you could give examples that relate to this situation, and not ones don't? "Obviously" dont?

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It's interesting, though. When similar threads crop up about whether it's reasonable to charge adult DCs for living at home, the consensus is almost always that it is, if they can afford it. I wonder why we apply different principles to parents who can afford it?

FWIW I don't charge my adult DCs when they live at home for periods of time, but there isn't enough money in the world to persuade me to have my MIL live with me in my home for 18 months, I would literally move out. Perhaps it just depends on how close the relationship is in the first place…

saraclara · 24/08/2024 18:26

Mysinglepringle · 24/08/2024 18:10

Having a moral compass and being shocked at the lack of others is not virtue signaling, but well done for using a current buzz word.

Referring to them as not being a relative is also callus and cold, considering its their partners mother.

They also haven't said its costing them more than shes prepared to pay, only that shes paying £400 and she previously agreed to pay more.

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The MIL's moral compass isn't all that accurate, though. She moved in, having agreed to a higher 'rent' once the house was sold, and had now reneged on that agreement, because her granddaughter (who doesn't have her GM's decent income and a house worth of savings) pays less.

Scotteacher · 24/08/2024 18:19

Their moral compass has led to them taking her into their home, and looking after her. That's priceless, and most parents would want to do right by them if they had the funds - and she does!

Mysinglepringle · 24/08/2024 18:10

Bambooshoot · 24/08/2024 17:24

You say this to virtue signal, oh yes, we get what a great person you are, you would just die for everybody (not) - but could you actually afford to support an elderly adult full time in your home (in the case of the OP, out of the goodness of your heart, since it’s not your relative)? Knowing they have savings they won’t spend? Having them pay less than it costs you to support them and knowing that their savings would later be cut massively by taxes if they have to go to a care home or by inheritance tax? And that in their right mind, of course they would want their savings to go to their children? What the hell else were they saving for?

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Having a moral compass and being shocked at the lack of others is not virtue signaling, but well done for using a current buzz word.

Referring to them as not being a relative is also callus and cold, considering its their partners mother.

They also haven't said its costing them more than shes prepared to pay, only that shes paying £400 and she previously agreed to pay more.

Mysinglepringle · 24/08/2024 18:05

Chonk · 24/08/2024 16:51

I wasn't suggesting the council tax will increase in this case (it won't, that's obvious). I was using it as an example of the inequality when one adult only pays for the actual increase in a bill. Why should MIL only pay for usage rather than contributing to the bills proportionately, as you'd expect a partner to do?

Edited

Show quote history

Because she's a vulnerable elderly adult and I don't see why they should financially benefit from her decling health and old age. Like I said, work out what its costing them financially for her to live there and ask for that. Perhaps you could give examples that relate to this situation, and not ones don't? "Obviously" dont?

Butwhybecause · 24/08/2024 17:52

Attendance Allowance: Lower rate - £72.65
Carer's Allowance: £81.90

By my reckoning that's £152.55 per week
(I could be wrong!)

CharlotteRumpling · 24/08/2024 17:49

The impression I got is that MIL has always had to be very frugal, and now frugality has become a way of life. Old people do tend to worry about money and if it will be enough, even when they have a lot of it. I know my mum does.

I can afford to support my mum though, so maybe that's the difference.

Butwhybecause · 24/08/2024 17:48

DuckbilledSplatterPuff · 24/08/2024 14:04

I don't think the OP is saying he wants to charge MIL for admin and services...He's just saying that he's currently subsidizing her living costs and it's a struggle, at a time when her bills have gone down by two thirds and she can easily afford to make a more reasonable contribution but is refuses on the grounds that she wants to pay the same as her GrandD who is just starting out and saving to move out. All he's saying is that he would like her to contribute fairly to actual bills.

It's also not a question of helping his DD and not his MIL. She's already been living with them for 18 months and in that time her diet, health and living conditions have been considerably improved. The fact that he's helping his child has nothing to do with whether his MIL should contribute to her share of household expenses.

With the level of care they are giving, helping with everyday tasks which she is unable to carry out for herself, MIL should be entitled to Attendance Allowance which means her DD (who presumably is the main carer) should be entitled to Carer's Allowance.

It's an entitlement, not charity.

Bambooshoot · 24/08/2024 17:42

Sorry, me again, but I am so baffled by some of these posts - saying basically you have to bankrupt yourselves by not daring to tell the mother that she is costing more than she claims - this is insane. No, you shouldn’t have to care for her for free. No, she can’t escape awkward conversations about money - she has lived a long life, has more experience of awkward conversations than you (and I) and I doubt this will be new to her! If you are saying she has Alzheimer’s then she shouldn’t be in control of her money anyway - otherwise, what exactly is stopping her from giving it to her family who need it, in return for the very good care she is getting? Does she have a plan to move abroad and buy a villa or something that she can’t let go of?

Bambooshoot · 24/08/2024 17:24

GustyFinknottle · 24/08/2024 16:52

This. I'm astonished at the mercenary nature of the OP. This is his/ her partner's mum, not some stranger they've taken in from the streets. That and the name 'PaterPower' is sending up red flags for me.

As PP's have said, it's treating the care of elderly family members as a source of income. Shocking.

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You say this to virtue signal, oh yes, we get what a great person you are, you would just die for everybody (not) - but could you actually afford to support an elderly adult full time in your home (in the case of the OP, out of the goodness of your heart, since it’s not your relative)? Knowing they have savings they won’t spend? Having them pay less than it costs you to support them and knowing that their savings would later be cut massively by taxes if they have to go to a care home or by inheritance tax? And that in their right mind, of course they would want their savings to go to their children? What the hell else were they saving for?

whereisthelifethatirecognize · 24/08/2024 17:01

Iwasafool · 24/08/2024 11:16

OPs partner works nights so probably has some heating on in the day as they are home. Some bills won't change, council tax, some might go up a bit, electricity, some might go up in proportion, food, but expecting her to pay 25% of the house costs as some are suggesting is exploiting her. They aren't a business, they aren't professional carers.

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And yet she cannot cope without carers, that much is obvious.

GustyFinknottle · 24/08/2024 16:52

Scammersarescum · 24/08/2024 14:28

Yes I'm amazed by the ageism on mumsnet and other social media.

Older people are vulnerable, just as younger people are. The OP even states that her MIL was sleeping for most of the day because of her poor lifestyle prior to moving in.

Yet the OP sees her as a handy source of income rather than as her partner's loved mother. Well don't worry OP you'll get your hands on her cash once she's dead won't you?

Really really sad post. If we are lucky enough to get old, this post is totally indicative of how society will treat us. Of no value except for our accrued personal assets.

I hope the OPs kids turn out kinder than her.

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This. I'm astonished at the mercenary nature of the OP. This is his/ her partner's mum, not some stranger they've taken in from the streets. That and the name 'PaterPower' is sending up red flags for me.

As PP's have said, it's treating the care of elderly family members as a source of income. Shocking.