It’s becoming unfashionable to have kids

This is all very true. I think a lot of people with children see the childfree as selfishly avoiding hard work. But there are many ways to contribute to society. For example, I was at a hospital recently and there was a lady volunteering who I guess was around 80 years old. She might have been doing that for decades. Or we have a local hospice and I've noticed that many of the volunteers are middle aged to older. They are using their time in a productive and valuable manner, and quite possibly building strong friendships through their work.

End of life is a worry without children, I must admit. I worry a lot about dying alone. But there are services and help you can access. For example, I've been reading a lot about ExtraCare housing lately. Something I fear terribly is losing my partner and not have a child to help me through my grief. But who is to say a child is best placed to offer that support (and what a terrible reason to bring them into the world in the first place - I had you so that you can suffer with me when your father dies!). In ExtraCare housing they have trained bereavement support workers.

Which is the real tragedy.

Quite. Nearly all my family live abroad, we are immigrants. My grandma has next to no friends and mocks anyone who joins groups or does volunteering (like the other elderly in her area). She has a go at me saying “you never call me” - while being rude and unpleasant and having a go at me for not wanting children.

Both of her daughters (my mum and auntie) emigrated and she hasn’t put effort into making other friends. Knowing you won’t have kids sort of forces you to make friends and join various networks!

Some people with children are just as likely to die alone.

In my experience, childfree people are better at planning and building networks. They value their friendships and relationships more and have the time to maintain them. It tends to be the people with children who let those things slide to focus on raising children and then end up lost and lonely when their children grow up and fuck off to live their own lives.

I see a lot of people talk about dying alone. But childfree people will be prepared for that. They tend to put things in place ahead of time because they don't take it for granted that someone else will sort things out for them like many people with children do. And death is really only a tiny part of your overall life. Your last moments don't cancel out your life lived.

@OppsUpsSide Why? Why is 'a falling birth rate' a problem? The world could do with less humans.

And heaven knows there are plenty of parents who really shouldn't have had children.

Ain't that the truth. Yet if you read the responses on here, you'd think parents were angels with endless love, compassion and empathy!

So you're saying just BC all your friends have kids, you should have them too? Seems quite selfish to me.

I have always known I don't want kids. Didn't want them as a teenager, hated babysitting, didn't want them in my 20s, don't want them in my 30s and have never, at any point in my life even slightly questioned that decision. I look at the lives of my friends who are parents and they look like hell to me. There are plenty of people who feel the same way.

Yep, and tbh, whilst I know 2 childfree women - in their 50s and 60s (one widowed, one single for 20+ years) who are quite lonely, and are a bit afraid of being alone and struggling in their old age, I do know another 2 who are very happy, with a large group of friends, and an active social life.

I also know 4 or 5 people in their 60s and 70s who have children, and they have little or no relationship with them. The children left the town they grew up in (or even left the country,) and they're lucky if they see them once a year. They won't be stepping up and caring for them when they need help and care.

I also knew a lady who lived near me (she died aged 88 two years ago,) and she had five children. 4 sons and a daughter. Just have a guess who ended up having to care for her when she got elderly and infirm and couldn't drive anymore, and had to drive her around everywhere? Yep,the daughter!

The FOUR SONS, FOUR of them - 2 older and 2 younger than the daughter - couldn't be fucked to even visit her more than 2 or 3 times a year. So if she had not had the daughter, she'd have had no-one (probably!) Her DH died when she was in her 50s.

Same with another older lady I know (late 60s) 2 sons both in their 40s, and neither of them keep in touch with her or visit her. Like fuck will they be coming to help if she needs it.

Of course SOME people have good or great relationships with their children, and they do care for them/help them when they're older. (DH and I have a great relationship with ours fortunately - and they live not too far away, and I am fairly sure they will be there if we need them when we're older...) But it's not a given that if you have children that they will care for you when you get old and infirm, or indeed that they will be anywhere near you at all!

I often think the child free but way more thought into their choice.

And heaven knows there are plenty of parents who really shouldn't have had children.

I totally agree.

I also think a lot of people (whether they admit it or not) become parents because it's normal, iyswim. So many people follow the path of "go to university, get a job, buy a house, settle down and have a family" without really thinking about whether they actually want those things.

I fell into the trap of "A-levels, university" and in hindsight it really wasn't the right path for me, but it's what my parents did and what all my friends did so I did it too.

I actually met most of my friends through our dogs.

We live in an area with 4-5 popular dog walking spots and most people tend to walk their dogs at the same everyday, in the same general area. So we get talking via the dogs, and then if they get on, we arrange to meet up at other times so the dogs can play and socialise.

That then evolves to going out for coffee etc. after a walk and then the friendship develops from there. I tend to walk my dog during the school run time as that fits with my day, so it just so happens that the people I meet are also child free and also not doing the school run.

We now meet up independently of the dogs and go for breakfast, or dinner, or on a day out, or we meet up with the dogs for a day at the beach etc.

They want us to have children and the same experiences as them. To validate that they’re right and have chosen the correct way to live.

It does read like ‘how dare you be happy? There’s a finite amount of happiness in the world, and I’m the one that’s sacrificed! I’m the one that deserves it!’.

Personally, I don’t understand worrying about what other people are doing with their own lives if I’m happy in mine.

If people aren’t having kids to fit in with a perceived fashion- they aren’t the sort of people who should be having them anyway!!

I agree. Some people are just desperate to say "I told you so!"

I get that impression too. There are certain posters who come to every single thread about children / only children / family sizes etc to tell us that:

We will be lonely
We will feel cast adrift
Friends cannot be family

I don't know what they want us to do. End our lives now to avoid all loneliness and misery which is coming down the line for us.

What do you think though, is it just a myth that birth rates are dropping?

I do think some people actively want the childfree to be lonely, as a deserved punishment for daring not to do the same as them (and also so they can use it as a warning to anyone else that may consider it). I also think there’s a resentment, again by some not all, of those that are seen to have ‘cheated’ at life by avoiding the hardships of parenting, and/or by living exactly as they have wanted to.

I’m regularly suggesting to my kids that they don’t have kids themselves. I think I’m not the only parent to think similarly. It’s so bloody hard and the world is such a hopeless mess. I think they’d be happier just living hedonistic, selfish lives and not worrying about offspring.

Not really. I know lots of women having their fourth child 🤣

It takes time and some luck no doubt. But it can be done. Friendship apps have been working well for me.

It's a very lovely stroke of fortune - we've all been friends for 20 odd years, and a large amount of us didn't have children by choice. I have wonderful friends from this group who also have children, so I think we were just all very lucky to find each other!

I do wonder where people meet others like this. Trying to arrange a group meet up with my friends is virtually impossible... person A has their cousins hen do on the weekend, person B has their parents anniversary dinner, person C is babysitting their niece etc etc

Very true about the internet. Through a friendship app, I have managed to make a good friend who also has no family. We are now very important to one another.

Yep, I'm exactly the same with me. Some do have grown up children but they're not in that young, intense phase of small children anymore so have a lot more choice and freedom etc.