It’s becoming unfashionable to have kids

My mum is dad and my dad's an alcoholic. So no.

I don’t know what you mean by unfashionable. Are you implying people have babies as a fashion statement?

I have four DC, but am incredibly cool 😂

I also have two dogs!

@JamSandle Of course it should be a choice and doesn’t suit everyone.

I was just pointing out that parenting isn’t hard work forever. I’m sure that your parents enjoy your company nowadays and take pleasure from your achievements?

I wouldn’t say it’s unfashionable, I just think that society is at a point now where people feel they have the choice and there is less pressure. It’s become a decision you make as a couple rather than a given that you will have children. I believe it can only be a good thing if it prevents those who never really had a desire for children to feel they can voice that without judgement.

I do have children but I absolutely wanted them. Most friends I have don’t have children and are also very happy with their lives, some had children and have really struggled. Parenting is hard and definitely not for everyone!

Exactly.

I met up with 3 friends recently. All of them mothers but me. And for the record they love their kids.

All of them said to me a variation of, 'I love my kids...but don't do it.'

The human / animal dichotomy is blurred. Dogs and cats are called Furbabies - a term I hate. Human babies are treated as disposable. A woman becomes unexpectedly pregnant and the first question is ‘will she keep it’ (the depersonalised “it”) as if he or she is a slightly inconvenient puppy that can be easily got rid of. Which of course, in our culture, is obscenely true.

Yes but the world has flipped on it's head... nowadays it seems men would rather they didn't have kids because it means the woman's earning power would reduce and they'd be expected to step up.

This is what I think is so important. People keep criticising the decision not to have children with reference to the future “who will look after you?!?!”

But nobody wants to discuss the impact to the child of being raised by poor parents who are poor parents because they never wanted them.

One of my closest friends is childfree. She and her only sibling (a sister) are childfree because they had a terrible mother who spent the entirety of their childhood telling them “never have kids. NEVER HAVE KIDS. They f@*k up your life”.

Imagine being told that by your primary carer on a regular basis and imagine the impact it would have on your self-esteem. I don’t think we should ever be pressuring people to have kids if they don’t want them and instead find ways to support those who do want children to have the family size they desire.

Child free women aren't saying they think these things are beneath them. We simply don't want kids.

And I'm sure most parents on this board are hoping there children won't be working as carers wiping butts for minimum wage, so presumably you'll be hoping it's someone else's child wiping your bum if you're in a care home too.

Aren't you lucky. My friends child is severely disabled and isn't potty trained at nearly 10.
Glad you're laughing about it. Not everyone is so lucky

Motherhood has long been seen by the patriarchy as a means of controlling women and keeping them from gaining financial power and public life.

Being a parent IS for life though. And not every woman wants that.

Yes well the childfree adults who think these things are beneath them should thank their lucky stars some people do have kids, as when they're elderly, it will be someone else's child who is caring for them.

@JamSandle I agree that it’s grim, but it’s hardly a life sentence. I’m sure that your Mum doesn’t clean up your excretions nowadays. 🤣 I haven’t cleaned up after DD (19) and DS (15) for years.

It would be empty and meaningless for many adults to spend their lives wiping another humans ass, cleaning up its sick, dealing with tantrums, revolving weekends around boring hobbies for the child and then the teenage years only for them to walk off and live their own life.

I don’t think it’s anything to do with fashion and more to do with the fact that people in their 20’s/30’s have grown up hearing the mantra “don’t have kids if you can’t afford them”

and they have assessed that they can’t, and so they’re not.

And there are women who think it sounds 'grim' to spend their lifes wiping up poo, vomit and bogies.

Different folks, different strokes.

I am really glad more people are making an active choice about whether they want kids or not. I think it's fucking marvellous people are choosing festivals and gigs over having kids if they want to prioritise that. Far far too many people slip into having kids without realising what it entails, the commitment or energy or temperament that makes a "good enough" parent. Mumsnet is riddled with posts about the consequences of shitty parenting.....Women with crap self esteem, repeated poor partner choices and stuck in a cycle of overwhelm and guilt. I'm delighted more people feel n freed to make an actual choice v and I hope it will mean less intergenerational misery.

Agree entirely

What doesn't seem 'grim' to you then? What do you consider to be a fulfilling life?

Again why either or? Plenty people with children have pets.

Why is it a waste if they're happy?

I'm sure there are lots of child free people who look at my life with kids - my buggered career and lack of fun time - and think "what a waste".

I'm glad I did it, but fuck me do I look with envy at the latest festival snaps and foreign holiday updates of my child free friends.

I was a LOT more interesting company before I had kids.

There have been a few threads along the lines of “what do child free people do with their lives?” which have confirmed that many people with children think that the lives of childfree people are empty and meaningless.

It’s not the past I’m concerned with (although I don’t dispute that it certainly wasn’t idyllic) but the future..comparing a better future for children in some areas doesn’t equate to a better world for children overall

furbabies I think is what they are called.
It turns my stomach, tbh.