It’s becoming unfashionable to have kids

To my mind, the bottom line for having a child or two is meeting the man.

Who is there for you and them, is financially solvent , treats you all with kindness etc.

Why bother otherwise?

@Samanabanana two in nursery in London can easily set you back £4k a month now - and I know a lot of people not eligible for free hours / tax free childcare.

Even with a high salary, this is quite something to willingly sign up to. And that’s before you consider London’s insane housing costs.

OMG I'm fashionable for the first time in my life 😁😁

Or it could be that people no longer feel that they have to have kids as that's the expectation of society.

But don't worry. Most people still think of us as total,freaks who have no joy or love in our lives 🙄

I have two DC but I can totally see why people are choosing not to have them:

Full time childcare for two under 3 is approx 3k/month - that's if you can find childcare!

Cost of living means that even if you can afford childcare, you can't afford to house, feed, clothe or entertain them

You're expected to work like you don't have children and employers are not understanding when you need to take time off for childcare related emergencies

Climate change is scary and who knows what world our children will inherit

Child benefit and tax free childcare caps haven't risen in line with wage inflation so now people on middle incomes are not eligible for any help

I suspect that the above are much more likely reasons that people choose not to have kids rather than it being fashionable

I treat my dog like a child and I have kids.

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I really don’t think so.

I think falling birth rates are to do with social change which means women don’t need to partner up so much, so they don’t get round to it on time, plus people who do have kids having fewer because life is so expensive.

The birth rate is too low for sure, but cost of living and housing and working hours are to blame for that.

Sounds like a terrible show. Having children (family is broader than just children) vs. not is entirely a personal decision and the world would be better if people stopped focusing on others and minding their own life choices.

The more the birth rate drops the more it becomes the norm to be childfree, and the more the birth rate drops. Etc.

I guess there isn't a lot of choice out there. There are so many lame men around who really don't deserve to be fathers.

So lets do a poll @Comedycook Would you and other parents on here be encouraging your children to work as care workers in care homes???!!! Or is that for other peoples children to do

That’s not society being ‘geared towards’ being a parent. That’s just people acknowledging and celebrating the arrival of babies or the challenge of being an athlete with a young family.

There are a million and one other similar examples not involving children - collections at work for charity dos, wedding presents, leaving presents etc. Magazines celebrating people overcoming any kind of hardship.

As for the idea raising children is hard… well, I mean it is harder than not having them isn’t it. Most parents are working full time and raising their kids meaning little time for themselves - that is hard!

If our society was geared towards parents we would have better paid parental leave, free childcare, tax breaks to help parents stay home, more investment in maternity services, more investment in schools etc. I think most people are trying to raise their kids in an environment that largely ignores the modern challenges of parenting!

It's only a few generations since there's been reliable contraception and women have had the option to have children or not.
Plus of course increasing education, access to work, lessening of stigma if one doesn't choose marriage and children, and financial independence, at least in some countries.

So rather than a "fashion", instead those who never wanted children are now increasingly not forced into a path that they didn't want. It'll probably stabilise at some point, with a percentage of women not wanting children and a majority wanting them.

Additionally, it's pretty well documented that both make and female fertility has been falling, so that will have some impact.

And yes, finances, ecology and the state of the world are a factor for some, as are involuntary childlessness, and not finding a suitable partner.

But of all the things which are susceptible to "fashion", I don't think having children is one of them, in terms of the biological urges.

The one place I might give it some degree of credence is in China, where after decades of the one child policy, they're having great difficulty in raising the birth rate again, due to people no longer having the experience of siblings, it not being something they see in society around them, and having been indoctrinated into a materialistic culture, so that the financial impact of having multiple children is seen as undesirable by many.

I'm not sure about "fashionable" or "unfashionable", but it's a similar story the world over. If you give women access to reliable contraception/abortion services and educational/economic opportunities which mean that marriage and motherhood are not their only options, it turns out that most women want either 0, 1 or 2 children and very few want more than 2.

And if you really fuck women off, either through reproductive repression and coercion like China or through a deeply misogynistic culture combined with an insane working hours ethos like Japan, no appeal to "your national duty" or "take one for the team" is going to get women voluntarily to have more kids just because the country is facing demographic crisis or oblivion.

Are you in the London/NYC OP as then I would have to agree with you, elsewhere not so much.

Disclaimer haven’t rtft

I've definitely noticed this among the higher earners I know.

@HuckleberryBlackcurrant I actually think this view is quite widespread. If we could just value having children /not having children more equally we’d all be better off

I'm the first of my close friends to have kids (I'm 35!!). None of them want them. They're worried about their careers, money and the toll it takes on them as women. These are all professional women with demanding careers they love.

Two friends in particular have husbands who would like them but my friends said they don't want to get stuck doing all the hard work, ruin their bodies and careers, and they know their husbands are a bit lame.

Personally I would leave the lame husband to find a good man to make a baby with but I guess it depends on how much you want them.

Are you for real?

Some people spend their 'childbearing' years parenting their own useless parents and/or traumatised by their own childhood. Unfortunately fitness to be in charge of the happiness and welfare of a child isn't a prerequisite to parenthood.

We’d have 3/4 if finances allow. Probably have to stop at 2. Fuck fashionable!

I'd much rather have a dog than a child in this climate. Poor schooling which is always underfunded, Underfunded NHS, childcare bleeds you dry and I'd have to give up my career and live on one wage and depend on my partner which to me, makes me squirm.

Also to note, children run the schools, children run their parents and I find children incredibly bratty and spoilt these days. Many of our friends have children and they all speak to their parents like utter shite or have horrendous manners and expect/want everything NOW. Yes, this is partly down to parenting but IMO, I'd rather not bring children into this world as it is now. This is the reason we have chosen not to have children, the world has gone too soft and too expensive.

I don't agree with your reasoning. Most people nowadays have two working parents and cant afford multiple children, not to mention the logistical difficulties of multiples for those without family closeby.

I haven't noticed that. Round our way - fairly "fashionable" area - everyone has at least one kid as soon as they can. More often two of three.

So much so, childcare is a nightmare - all nurseries are full, and getting a space is like winning a lottery.