It’s becoming unfashionable to have kids

We've never had that type of society. The world of humans has always been about gaining power and making money. Not spending it. They'll invest the bare minimum just to keep the human race going.

It’s not as black and white as you are making it though.

For a lot of women it’s a spectrum: if everything comes together and you meet the perfect person at the right time and your finances are tickety boo in your late 20s maybe you go for it then and it’s a no brainer. If you are skint in your late 30s and your partner is abusive and you can’t imagine bringing children into that situation then obviously that is sad.

But there’s many shades in between that where people are pragmatic and adapt to what life throws at them. I was single and childless in my mid 30s and then very unexpectedly met someone and married him and was pregnant within two years (he turned out not to be right but that another story). But if I hadn’t had my daughter I would have been fine with not having kids: I was not the sort of person who is broody or hell bent on starting a family and I would have been relaxed if I hadn’t.

My oldest friend is single and childless at 52 having originally very much children but is now very glad she didn’t have them: she has an amazing life and lots of disposable money.

I think it’s rarely as straightforward as people knowing they do or don’t want kids. Most of the time circumstances play a big part in this. It’s always been like that too: the difference is that 60 years ago women had far less choice in the matter and not having children made you a source of pity. I think a lot of women of my mother’s generation would actually have had far more fulfilling lives if they hadn’t had children than just going along with the default out of inertia and lack of direction.

Anyone who knows they want children above everything else can still have them as long as their health allows it. Everyone else now has the choice to opt for another life without the guilt and pity.

I don't have children, not through choice just didn't work out for me. I have to say I feel it is a lot more socially acceptable and normal now to not have children. I am in my fifties and I really felt like the odd one out during my thirties but I think it is much more normalised now to decide not to have children. No one bats an eyelid anymore.

I wouldn't say it is anything to do with fashion. Just that it is not seen as 'odd' anymore - but then there is so much more emphasis upon diversity and inclusion and that straight with 2.4 children is not necessarily seen as an ideal anymore.

I also think the younger generation are looking at climate change and don't want to bring children into what could be a unliveable world in a generation or twos time.

But people do not have children to get social housing.

This is a Daily Mail myth (incidentally I know single women without children in council homes.)
Having children costs money. Nobody has children for money unless you are one of the tiny number of women getting knocked up for insanely wealthy men (footballers, billionaires and others of that level.) Not one of the women I know in my family or who I went to school with who has basically chosen to get knocked up young and subsists off benefits has a better lifestyle than me. Not one.

I'm one of the child-free-by-choice. I'm 59 and chose never to have any when I was 6 after someone tried to pass me a horrible gummy screaming thing. I'm not a fan of kids but I treat my pets as my babies, so does my husband.

This is me and a shockingly high number of women I know without children.

Or they managed to find a suitable man but far too late for children to be a possibility.

Try getting social housing now if you are single child free and female

For those who keep going on about the birth rate declining...why is that a big worry for you? At a global level we are talking decades upon decades where it will really be an issue in terms of keeping the human race going...so who cares if it's declining. You would think it's a good thing for the planet as less resources are consumed.

Wel yes, it may be the sensible decision but we should have a society whereby women aren't plunged into poverty by becoming mothers and where men are responsible fathers who take care of their families. We should have a society where decent housing and childcare is not out of reach

Very true, men typically want to claim the glory -"I have sired offspring behold my virility"- thereby positioning themselves as the high status person who does not have to do the low status menial work of actually rearing and parenting offspring!

I would like to think as more women take that approach men will eventually wake up and realise that they need to change their ways if they want a family. But sadly there will always be women whose desire to have children will override everything else. Easy pickings for those shit men and more children raised to think this is ok.

Isn’t the state pension at least partly contributions based though?

It’s a myth that they get all this money. Even poorer families will find having children is more expensive than not having them.

And people who procreate recklessly (and I know loads it’s essentially the background I can from) don’t actually give much thought to the benefits available. They just have sex and pregnancy / babies follow. And only then do they think about how they will manage.

However, if she decides she won't have children because she can't find a decent partner, can't afford suitable housing, can't afford childcare or just because the cost of living in general is so high, then whilst remaining childless may well be the sensible decision, its actually incredibly sad and a very poor reflection on our society.

Sort of. Many women don't want to raise children in poverty, or on their own, or with shit men. It's not sad that they can make that decision. What was sad was our great-grandmother popping out children for over 20 years to dress them in rags and feed them scraps while their husbands did nothing. It's a good thing that women can now control whether they do or don't have children and what kind of lives they can give them.

@HollyKnight I agree and it's definitely the case with some of my friends whoa re choosing not to have kids. There is a lot more awareness of how much work a child is and the men just haven't caught up with the times and think they can have a wife with a career AND one that does everything at home.

I was chatting to my friends about it and we all agreed we don't want to be our mothers. Frazzled, exhausted, moody, angry and unhealthy because our dads did fuck all while our mums went out to work and then came home to do EVERYTHING. My dad used to literally walk in the door, sit on the sofa and put his feet up. It actually makes me angry looking back!!! When the fuck did my mum get any sleep??

I think I'd a woman genuinely doesn't want to have children it's great that that option is now socially acceptable and she can choose to remain childfree. However, if she decides she won't have children because she can't find a decent partner, can't afford suitable housing, can't afford childcare or just because the cost of living in general is so high, then whilst remaining childless may well be the sensible decision, its actually incredibly sad and a very poor reflection on our society.

There is also a lack of good-quality men. A lot of women would maybe like to have children, but not enough to have them with unsuitable partners. Some men make fine boyfriends/husbands but would be shit fathers.

My main issue with this is with the use of the word “fashionable”. It’s a word which is consistently used to put down women – and other minority or marginalised groups.

How many times over the years have we heard that women are opting for c-sections because it’s more fashionable than good old-fashioned pushing? Or that the Me Too movement was fashionable. Women are speaking up because it’s fashionable. Career Women are in fashion. The list goes on and on, but also, being gay is fashionable these days; dual-heritage relationships are fashionable…

It’s a way of keeping women in their place and reducing our decisions to following the herd or want to look good and keep up with the Joneses rather than accepting that women have their own thoughts, opinions and ideals and are able to use these to take control of their own lives.

The birth rate is declining.Fact.

Has the percentage of women who don’t want children changed over the years? Possibly not. The trouble is that we don’t have that data but it’s just as reasonable to draw from the above fact that all the women who never wanted to be mothers are now following their convictions rather than just going along with it. That’s nothing to do with fashion and if this hypothesis is true than actually nothing has changed in the hearts and heads of women, it’s just that we now have more choice and increasing acceptance of these choices.

I said may feel, not should feel. Of course people can feel however they want to feel about it.

I do have DC but they weren’t a must for me. I would’ve been able to live a happy and fulfilling life without DC.

Completely agree with this.

Also agree with the PPs talking about cost of raising children being a massive factor for many. I don't think there's anything about being "fashionable" or not.

My friend group is about 50/50 having kids vs wanting to be child-free, we're in our 30s. Never been any judgment either way about reproduction choices and if anything I think it's only been the last few years or so when choosing not to have kids for any reason (as opposed to not actually being able to) has been seen as a reasonable choice.

I don't think fashion has anything to do with it. Just women no longer feel the pressure to become mothers. That has to be a good thing surely? I have quite a few friends who chose a career over kids, and that was 100% the right decision for them. It's very hard to have a career and kids, in some parts of the UK, due to lack of childcare. My child free friends look a good 10 yrs younger than me.

I wouldn't say the desire has declined, rather the quality of partner with whom to have them...

think if you want kids you pay for them.
Or CM hundreds a month and yet it’s still not enough for some.
Children are not piggy banks or a free ticket to get your own way.

I don’t think it’s common to have dc as a cash cow.

The whole pay for them is a grey area imo. Do we penalise older people for not saving for a pension & abolish pension credit? What about people in social housing without dc?

What does make me laugh is some people i know an have read about on here.
Say they dont claim any benefits none at all but yet still claim child benefit that is still a benefit or working tax credit its still a benefit.

It’s probably because when they were dc, the child benefit equivalent wasn’t means tested. Same way people don’t count the state pension as a benefit.

@KimberleyClark

Some people really don’t have any hobbies,passions or interests outside of their children/grandchildren and can’t imagine wanting to do something like going to a concert or any activity that is not child centred.

I agree. I think a fairly large number of people have kids just because they lack the imagination to do anything more interesting or creative and then look down at the child free people because having children is literally the only advantage they have over them. And then bleat on about “who is going to look after you when you are old,” as if that was a relevant motive. A lot of the comments on this thread suggest people with extremely limited imagination.

One thing if your time and money are very limited.

But to actively seek to limit your life in this way and judge people who broaden their horizons or expand their experiences in this way is so depressing. It also tends to make the kids you have boring and self centred.