It’s becoming unfashionable to have kids

I think there’s something in that. I couldn’t care less how happy parents are - it’s irrelevant for me, great for them. The fact that so many of them get so bothered about how happy we are, what words we use to describe ourselves etc. - seems to me to be an issue with them.

Not one woman that you know, but it's a very common sentiment in the area I grew up in and most women on one side of my family had a baby to get a house

The expression Child free suggests people who have children have sacrificed their freedom and become trapped in a lesser lifestyle. The reality is the majority of parents find the opposite is true and their lives are enriched.

Why does what a group of people describe themselves as make any difference to you and your choices? It implys nothing about you at all. It is how we, who have decided to not have children, describe our status. I'm not childless because although I actually can't have children, I didn't want them in the first place.

I find it really cringey when some women describe themselves as mama bear or x's mummy - but as it doesn't concern me, or my choices, then I don't bother commenting.

What's the big deal with people treating pets as kids? Are we only allowed to do this if we also have kids? Why is it a problem for people?"

Because most hobbies, which having a pet is, don't have a detrimental effect on other people.

But having pets (well, dogs, and to an extent, cats if they poo in your garden) can have a detrimental effect on others. But people get told they have to suck it up because they're fur babies and like children.

As for having children or not having children, it's not a fashion statement either way.

@fitzwilliamdarcy

Christ, are happily childfree women now expected not to mention being happy with their status, lest it make the mums and women who want to be mums feel like they’re not cool?!

I do honestly think one of the main reasons people with children are so unsettled about the idea of child free people being happy is envy of the freedom they have.

Plus the fact it goes against everything that was shoved down their throats as children.

Christ, are happily childfree women now expected not to mention being happy with their status, lest it make the mums and women who want to be mums feel like they’re not cool?!

Alternatively we could all grow up?!

The birth rate isn’t falling because of an insidious childfree lobby, anyway, but because those who are having kids aren’t having as many. (Though where I live and work, having 3 is the norm, I know plenty with 4 and very few with only 1 or 2).

What's the big deal with people treating pets as kids? Are we only allowed to do this if we also have kids? Why is it a problem for people?

@gannett

I find that whenever someone blames "fashion" and "the in thing" and "it's trendy these days" it's usually because they're too out-of-touch or unimaginative to understand that other people can make life choices that are different to theirs, or different to what used to be the norm, simply because they want to.

God yes it’s so patronising. As if anyone who doesn’t want a cookie cutter white picket fence life is pretentious or attention seeking. See also people who call you “edgy” because they don’t agree with you.

Weird premise for a thread.

I find that whenever someone blames "fashion" and "the in thing" and "it's trendy these days" it's usually because they're too out-of-touch or unimaginative to understand that other people can make life choices that are different to theirs, or different to what used to be the norm, simply because they want to.

Not a single child-free or childless person I know has made that decision because it's fashionable. Conversely I've known a few people who had kids simply because they thought it was the done thing and they didn't realise they could actually opt out.

And also, in my 20s I'd say every female friend would have thought having kids was unfashionable. We were a hard-partying, bohemian and arty lot, and kids would have definitely cramped our style. And almost all of them changed their mind! A few of us ended up being child-free for real but even in that context we're a minority. As I understand it, even if you think having kids is unfashionable, if you possess the maternal instinct then that overrides it.

If there's an increase in people opting to be child-free it's down to more women having that option, financially and emotionally and logistically. That's a wonderful thing.

I don’t know where you are or what culture you’re from but not having children is quite common nowadays. As is being single. I don’t know anyone - me included (single, child free) - who is “hounded”.

I’d say about 40-50% of my colleagues don’t have children and probably around 30% of my friends.

And the populations NEEDs to fall. It can not keep rising every year. That has led to lots of problems. It will be a painful few decades while we transition, but it will be better in the long run.

Exactly. People adapt. Everyone has wishes and dreams, but people don't just give up on life and spend the rest of their days miserable when those wishes and dreams don't happen. They form new wishes and dreams to work towards instead.

@KimberleyClark

Absolutely this. The accepted narrative is that if you wanted children but couldn't have them you will be sad for the rest of your life. This is not always true. People move on and build happy rewarding lives without children.

Totally. One of the (many) reasons to cheer the fact that women aren’t all funnelled into motherhood by default any more is that they are now allowed to be happy and successful and get on with their lives without the cloud of pity which society used to hang over them.

That’s something to celebrate in my view.

Most people still have kids. The difference now is that most people choose to have kids. In the past it was simply you get married and had children. It meant some adults who clearly were not interested in children, still had them. All children should be wanted.

Absolutely this. The accepted narrative is that if you wanted children but couldn't have them you will be sad for the rest of your life. This is not always true. People move on and build happy rewarding lives without children.

Well I'd like to hear from the people who make it because what they are ayaing is have kids ro keep the money rolling in. Noone and I'd be shocked if they do has ever thought yeah ill have kids cos I need them to pay taxes and people's pensions. And if is the reason why they say....well all shades of wrong to be honest

What will have to happen is phasing out of the current way things are done like how they have introduced ed auto enrollment for pe signs to wean people off it so in the future u don't have to rely on keeping abrth rate up and let's face it it's no guarantee they will work as we can see now.

I completely agree. Beyond me how anyone is oblivious to this

What a disgusting thing to say. You should be ashamed

I don't think this is the case. I don't have any living children and have lost a child as well as had multiple miscarriages.
I've accepted I may not have another child. Rather than live in doom and gloom I've started to really enjoy and be thankful for the things I can do that I may not be able to have done otherwise. A lot of the people living happily childfree have absolutely made that choice for themselves, but there are those among that number who have struggled and have began to see another road ahead of us. Btw I'm absolutely not saying everyone without children couldnt have them before anyone comes for me, just adding in my 2 cents.

@SouthLondonMum22

Women don’t have to be plunged into poverty if they are financially independent. Women are capable of financially taking care of their families too.

Also this.

Surely you know the answer to this?

Everyone is aware of the Catch 22 that the aging population in most wealthy countries means that in a few decades there won't be enough working age adults to support all the elderly people, despite the fact that the global population is increasing.

The aging population (which means lack of enough young people to enter the workforce to balance the older people leaving the workforce and starting to need increasing healthcare and financial support) means that the prospect of retiring while still in good enough physical health to "enjoy retirement" will be relegated to a brief blup in history which only one or two generations got to enjoy.

Today's teenagers probably won't be able to expect a state pension at all, probably they'll have to be reformulated so that the only way anyone can "retire" is on a private pension or after having been assessed as permanently unfit to work due to age related or other chronic illness or disability.

Women don’t have to be plunged into poverty if they are financially independent. Women are capable of financially taking care of their families too.

Op’s type if comments are so odd to me.

I just don’t see it in the real world, at all.

Everyone I know / have met has kids / want kids / few who wanted, but couldn’t have kids.
Everyone.

Even today’s world people hound you if you don’t have them.
If you don’t have kids (or god forbid you don’t want them) you’re shamed for it.
Even being single is STILL ’wrong’.

Married / in a relationship people and parents are still put high on the pedestal.

So, I have no idea were people like op get their ideas from.
They are not based on reality.