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It’s becoming unfashionable to have kids

934 replies

Housebuyingfamily · 18/08/2024 19:56

Birth rates are on the floor which people frame as, people would have more kids were it not for the cost of them or climate change, etc etc. But I feel like it’s now more than this. As if we have a global child-free culture that’s growing every day and it’s becoming increasingly “unfashionable” to have kids, even looked down upon.

OP posts:
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6
Omeleto2024 · 23/08/2024 00:44

Spectre8 · 23/08/2024 00:27

Amem to your posts. I've been out saying but just won't put up with the shit men I meet. Must to my mums disdain she wishes I would marry but as I told her why would I deliberately saddle myself with someone who will make unhappy and streases just because u are from the generation where your life is not complete unless u marry and have kids.

Men need to step up their game because women are no longing putting up with it

I feel so sorry for my daughter. She's a genuine catch, intelligent, decent, hard working, attractive. She was in a relationship with a lazy, emotionally fucked up man boy for three years and finally escaped his clutches and now she's absolutely adamant that she's happy being single. And I absolutely CANNOT blame her. I do encourage her sometimes to date again, but she has actual standards now that she's been through hell with the one of the usual suspects and is extremely wary of being tricked again.

My husband, my second husband, is a genuinely decent man, but again I feel like I caught the last chopper out of Saigon.

Spectre8 · 23/08/2024 00:27

Omeleto2024 · 23/08/2024 00:20

Again, it's not unfashionable. It's simply a frightening and unstable relationship world that men have created and most women are now aware of the reality that there's a strong chance they'll be in a relationship with a man who is extremely messed up, make them miserable and then dump them and leave them with the kid/s.

Amem to your posts. I've been out saying but just won't put up with the shit men I meet. Must to my mums disdain she wishes I would marry but as I told her why would I deliberately saddle myself with someone who will make unhappy and streases just because u are from the generation where your life is not complete unless u marry and have kids.

Men need to step up their game because women are no longing putting up with it

Omeleto2024 · 23/08/2024 00:20

Omeleto2024 · 20/08/2024 10:16

Oh heavens, no, it's not a fashion thing.

The main reason young women are having fewer babies is that it is increasingly difficult to find a man who is marriage material.

Many are hugely entitled, lazy and demanding. Misogyny is through the roof - the fact that Andrew Tait has even one follower let alone the millions he does proves that.

Many young men now think porn is sex (which of course it is not) and think they have the right to stream filmed prostitution straight to their phones as much as they like and wank off anytime anywhere to anyone.

Many manpanderers pretend this is normal too because a cookie from a man might be worth something to them, and they imagine they will be the cool girl exception to the abuse rule.

Many young men think that anal rape, beating choking and other abuse that they try to call a kink is their right and women should be smooth and hairless and utterly obliging pornbots.

Gail Dynes has been talking about this for years and years.

It's not just babies, lots of young women are often opting out of dating men at all, because from every corner they are inundated by filth, misogyny, objectification and demands from man babies.

https://www.healthyscreenhabits.org/s8-episode-5-talking-about-porn-with-the-best-gale-dines-culture-reframed

Some men are trying to counter this tide, but unfortunately many of them are going for the "be a trad wife and do as you are told: approach.

So on the one side you have left wing men who think women's flesh can be purchased and peddled who are weirdly pro choice when it comes to prostitution and abortion but don't seem to give a fuck about women any other time, and on the other right wing men who think they should stay in the kitchen dropping sprogs until they drop dead of exhaustion.

And in the middle are dazed and confused young men who don't know what to do about any of it.

As Dynes says "The sexual script of pornography is that girls and women are disposable sex objects to be used and abused for men's pleasure. That is the key script of pornography. And the key script for boys is that they have no moral compass. They are. In fact, the image of boys and men in pornography is they are life support systems for erect penises. They are devoid of any capacity for intimacy, for connection, for empathy."

And as she points out this is a tragedy for both sexes.

There are still decent men out there - but where to find them?

And although it is fantastic that divorce is easily accessible and that women can work to support themselves, easy splitting up of marriages has given many men the only excuse they needed to ditch the kids and walk away.

It's now the absolute norm for people to have blended families - which don't work for the most part.

Most marriages will fail now, and while the kids are young because women refuse to put up men's shit.

And still, men as a whole seem to make no effort to stay faithful and treat their wives well, they want a whore in the bedroom who earns a good wage and is also a servant who will tolerate anything.

So, no, it's not a fashion trend.

The internet ruined men and men are ruining the world.

The reason women and girls are having less babies in the west - and they are indeed having less babies - is that the smart ones no longer want to risk their lives and their futures knowing that they will likely be abused, used, dumped and then replaced and left as single mothers.

Add to that the rising cost of housing, food and all the essentials and the fact that you cannot parent your children without being told you're wrong from every shouty corner of the world, and the current harmful societal trends among young people making it impossible to keep them truly safe and the amazing thing is that any young women at all are still having kids.

Glad I had my kids when I did. I would not be doing so now.

The internet has devastated social norms and behaviours and massively increased harmful, abusive and selfish behaviour in men - and also in women. The western world is now in large part peopled by narcissists, anxiety ridden shut ins and people who need trigger warnings to open a book and are deeply and genuinely offended by jokes.

I read a tweet that made me laugh the other day - because it's true. "Do married people watch Gen Z dating and feel like they caught the last chopper out of Nam?"

Well, I'm not Gen Z. But yup.

Again, it's not unfashionable. It's simply a frightening and unstable relationship world that men have created and most women are now aware of the reality that there's a strong chance they'll be in a relationship with a man who is extremely messed up, make them miserable and then dump them and leave them with the kid/s.

SoreSunday · 22/08/2024 22:22

EvangelicalAboutButteredToast · 22/08/2024 18:01

I don’t understand why that’s a difficult concept 🤔

i can only tell you about my parenting experience but my kids are my whole life. I pretty much pushed myself to one side to focus on them. So for me it’s been incredibly selfless.

Why did you do that? Do you have no identity other than being a parent? How will you ever cope without them?

It is a mentality I won’t really ever understand.

Catsmere · 22/08/2024 22:21

Housebuyingfamily · 22/08/2024 18:54

The post I replied to from a child free person took great pleasure in telling me that parenting and children were a miserable empty slog. I admit I lashed out at that and should not have used the word pity, but I stand by the rest as that is my experience.

Why should the CF be able to band together and bang on about how horrible kids and parenting is, but I can’t reply to say I completely disagree?

Note also I said “child free” as in by choice.

Bullshit. You started this thread with your "unfashionable" claim. Every childfree person has said having children would be miserable for them, that there would be nothing positive about it for them, and in plenty of cases that they would not consider themselves suitable to be parents, another reason they didn't do it. You're the one pretending their choices are about you.

Firefly1987 · 22/08/2024 22:14

EvangelicalAboutButteredToast · 22/08/2024 18:01

I don’t understand why that’s a difficult concept 🤔

i can only tell you about my parenting experience but my kids are my whole life. I pretty much pushed myself to one side to focus on them. So for me it’s been incredibly selfless.

Well you obviously get something out of it (or thought you would) or else you wouldn't have done it. I don't count people "sacrificing" themselves for their own mini-mes as selfless.

Itsjustmeheretoday · 22/08/2024 21:51

Housebuyingfamily · 22/08/2024 18:54

The post I replied to from a child free person took great pleasure in telling me that parenting and children were a miserable empty slog. I admit I lashed out at that and should not have used the word pity, but I stand by the rest as that is my experience.

Why should the CF be able to band together and bang on about how horrible kids and parenting is, but I can’t reply to say I completely disagree?

Note also I said “child free” as in by choice.

Parenting can be a miserable slog for many! Have you not noticed?? It's not all sunshine and rainbows!

InterIgnis · 22/08/2024 21:30

Housebuyingfamily · 22/08/2024 18:54

The post I replied to from a child free person took great pleasure in telling me that parenting and children were a miserable empty slog. I admit I lashed out at that and should not have used the word pity, but I stand by the rest as that is my experience.

Why should the CF be able to band together and bang on about how horrible kids and parenting is, but I can’t reply to say I completely disagree?

Note also I said “child free” as in by choice.

What’s there to disagree with? For some people it is a miserable empty slog, but so what? If it isn’t for you then who cares what anyone else thinks? What does someone else’s opinion take away from your experience and enjoyment of your life, exactly?

No matter what your life looks like and how happy you may be living it, there will be those that would find it miserable for themselves. Same is true for my life and indeed every life. Big fucking deal 🤷🏻‍♀️ that’s just, well, life.

No point asking why people don’t want children and getting offended when they tell you. Unless of course you enjoy getting butthurt.

CleanShirt · 22/08/2024 21:20

Housebuyingfamily · 22/08/2024 18:54

The post I replied to from a child free person took great pleasure in telling me that parenting and children were a miserable empty slog. I admit I lashed out at that and should not have used the word pity, but I stand by the rest as that is my experience.

Why should the CF be able to band together and bang on about how horrible kids and parenting is, but I can’t reply to say I completely disagree?

Note also I said “child free” as in by choice.

Yet it's fine for you to say that people without children can't love wholeheartedly. Sometimes we need to band together because of awful comments like this.

CleanShirt · 22/08/2024 21:19

Nc4dis · 22/08/2024 21:18

You literally started a thread asking why people weren’t having children, you must have expected negatives as answers. You obviously created it as a thinly-veiled excuse to bash childfree people and tell us our existence is inferior to yours. Classic. Yawn!

My bingo card is just about full.

Nc4dis · 22/08/2024 21:18

You literally started a thread asking why people weren’t having children, you must have expected negatives as answers. You obviously created it as a thinly-veiled excuse to bash childfree people and tell us our existence is inferior to yours. Classic. Yawn!

Autumnismyfavouritetimeofyear · 22/08/2024 20:18

Housebuyingfamily · 22/08/2024 18:54

The post I replied to from a child free person took great pleasure in telling me that parenting and children were a miserable empty slog. I admit I lashed out at that and should not have used the word pity, but I stand by the rest as that is my experience.

Why should the CF be able to band together and bang on about how horrible kids and parenting is, but I can’t reply to say I completely disagree?

Note also I said “child free” as in by choice.

You started this thread. And have been deliberately goady - you set up the situation where you could lash out. Take some responsibility for yourself. You rightly got a roasting on here. Have your experience by all means. But stop extrapolating this to other people - you do not have the definitive experience of what love is like for anyone else but you.

Kingoftheslugs · 22/08/2024 19:06

sunsetsandboardwalks · 22/08/2024 19:02

Haha, that sounds much more realistic Grin

My parents were (and are) great parents but they certainly weren't entirely selfless, and bloody good for them I say.

My mum was a martyr. I did not want to spend my life serving others and moaning about it.

That's my day job. I like to moan about that at home instead.

sunsetsandboardwalks · 22/08/2024 19:02

Kingoftheslugs · 22/08/2024 18:57

For balance, I am not a selfless parent. They can finish my chips, but no one's touching my whole nut. Or my makeup. Or my free time.

Haha, that sounds much more realistic Grin

My parents were (and are) great parents but they certainly weren't entirely selfless, and bloody good for them I say.

Kingoftheslugs · 22/08/2024 18:57

sunsetsandboardwalks · 22/08/2024 18:48

I genuinely don't see how a selfish decision like becoming a parent can lead to entirely selfless actions.

The way you describe it is all a bit..nauseating, honestly.

For balance, I am not a selfless parent. They can finish my chips, but no one's touching my whole nut. Or my makeup. Or my free time.

Housebuyingfamily · 22/08/2024 18:54

JHound · 22/08/2024 12:27

So the point of you creating this thread becomes clear.

To belittle those without children. Not everybody who has children feels the way you do. Instead of pitying people for having a different life to you - why not just enjoy your life and stop needing others to validate your choices? Somebody else not having children does not impact you.

(And what an absolutely disgusting post for those struggling with infertility to have to see.)

The post I replied to from a child free person took great pleasure in telling me that parenting and children were a miserable empty slog. I admit I lashed out at that and should not have used the word pity, but I stand by the rest as that is my experience.

Why should the CF be able to band together and bang on about how horrible kids and parenting is, but I can’t reply to say I completely disagree?

Note also I said “child free” as in by choice.

OP posts:
sunsetsandboardwalks · 22/08/2024 18:48

EvangelicalAboutButteredToast · 22/08/2024 18:01

I don’t understand why that’s a difficult concept 🤔

i can only tell you about my parenting experience but my kids are my whole life. I pretty much pushed myself to one side to focus on them. So for me it’s been incredibly selfless.

I genuinely don't see how a selfish decision like becoming a parent can lead to entirely selfless actions.

The way you describe it is all a bit..nauseating, honestly.

BruFord · 22/08/2024 18:02

SweetBirdsong · 22/08/2024 17:50

This! To suggest everyone should have children, 'in case we run out of working age adults' is just ridiculous!' There's not enough jobs NOW to go around, and with modern technology and AI, and lots of things being automated and online now, less and less jobs are becoming available. Having much less humans will be of a great benefit for many reasons! If only 50% of humans reproduced, that would be a great positive for Planet Earth.

Edited

I agree, @SweetBirdsong . As @Justthistime1234 referenced with the FT article upthread, there’ll be a painful adjustment period, but we’ll have to adapt and put up with it.

EvangelicalAboutButteredToast · 22/08/2024 18:01

sunsetsandboardwalks · 22/08/2024 17:14

I don't understand how raising kids is selfless when the vast majority of people choose to be parents for selfish reasons? Confused

I don’t understand why that’s a difficult concept 🤔

i can only tell you about my parenting experience but my kids are my whole life. I pretty much pushed myself to one side to focus on them. So for me it’s been incredibly selfless.

SweetBirdsong · 22/08/2024 17:50

InterIgnis · 22/08/2024 14:42

Whilst there are simultaneously warnings about many jobs becoming obsolete due to technology.

Even if this is a problem, the answer to it isn’t ’compel people to have children they don’t want’, as if that wouldn’t naturally create a whole host of it’s own problems even outside of increasing overpopulation to prop up an unsustainable pyramid scheme.

Ultimately, humans will adapt to changing circumstances as they always have done.

This! To suggest everyone should have children, 'in case we run out of working age adults' is just ridiculous!' There's not enough jobs NOW to go around, and with modern technology and AI, and lots of things being automated and online now, less and less jobs are becoming available. Having much less humans will be of a great benefit for many reasons! If only 50% of humans reproduced, that would be a great positive for Planet Earth.

BruFord · 22/08/2024 17:46

JHound · 22/08/2024 17:16

I was referring to in-person support.

Yes, but other types of support are valuable. Nowadays, you don’t need to live around the corner to be connected and helpful. Plus you can visit regularly.

I’m not denying what other posters have said about ppl not being visited in retirement homes, etc., I personally know one set of parents who are somewhat ignored, but it’s not the norm. I’ve got more ruthless in ditching friends who aren’t particularly nice though, perhaps that’s why, my friends are lovely!

CleanShirt · 22/08/2024 17:34

Nadeed · 22/08/2024 15:54

You need to make friends with people who either have no family or they are far away or estranged.

That's a really strange generalisation. I have family near and far and I'm not estranged from any of them. I just prefer the company of my friends.

BlackShuck3 · 22/08/2024 17:34

JHound · 22/08/2024 17:15

Continuously producing children to have enough “working age adults” seems like a massive pyramid scheme. We need to reassess how we do things in society as we cannot force people to have children.

Have I ever suggested that people should be forced to have children?

Nc4dis · 22/08/2024 17:24

Having kids is an entirely selfish decision - “I want, I had an urge”. The only selfless reasons I can think of are:

  1. You believe life is awesome and amazing and a gift, and you want someone else to experience it
  2. You believe society needs more children, so you have them and encourage them info a profession with shortages, like care work

No-one is doing it for those reasons. In fact I can guarantee that all the Mumsnetters saying “well be glad people have children because they’ll be the ones wiping your arse!” do NOT want their children to go into care work and wipe anyone’s arses. They all want them to be bankers/lawyers/corporate tech managers - a lot of jobs that are detrimental to society and encourage consumerism.

JHound · 22/08/2024 17:16

BruFord · 22/08/2024 15:11

@Jhound. As I said upthread though, most of my middle-aged friends do support their parents in various ways, including myself, who lives in a different country.

Thanks to technology, I can ring my Dad daily , I can arrange various services for him and I visit every 3-4 months. I also encourage other family and friends to call and visit him.

It’s slightly off topic for this thread, but it does annoy me when MN’ers suggest that most middle-aged people don’t make an effort with their elderly parents, that’s not the case at all among my friends ( with a couple of exceptions).

I was referring to in-person support.

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