It’s becoming unfashionable to have kids

Were there many younger children in your life growing up? I had a lot of younger cousins and my sister is seven years younger than I am so I had a sort of preview into what it's like to experience the development of another person. I couldn't wait to experience it with my own children. For me (aware not everyone is bothered!) it's one of the most thrilling and interesting things to see someone go from being a tiny helpless newborn into a person with thoughts and opinions who can walk and talk. It's genuinely amazing. The fact that that person's my child makes it even more amazing. I do get the horses for courses argument - my friend's a doctor and thinks it's the best thing ever. I couldn't imagine anything worse.

For me, not really. The positive part is what other people tell me (greatest love ever, your heart melts when they achieve something) but not something I can imagine. It’s too much of a risk for me to make a lifechanging decision because other people tell me it was right for them. I’m not other people. Other people have told me many things were great and I should DEFINITELY do it, I did, they were awful.

Actually one positive I can see is having adult children. But that’s literally it.

You can't imagine loving a child, taking joy in their development? Your friends sound like quite a miserable bunch!

They certainly aren't, and ime the people who talk about their pets that way are as likely to have children as not. The few times I've heard anyone use those terms about their pets, however much they love them, it's been tongue-in-cheek.

Having a child is definitely hard. But surely you can see the positive side too?

I genuinely can't. I look at my friends with children and they all seem to be permanently frazzled and stressed out about something - be that finances or school or activities or behaviour - it just looks awful to me 🤷‍♀️

But I'm sure people feel the same way about owning a dog, or multiple cats, or what I do for a living - it's all horses for courses really.

I completely get the childfree, as I had no intention of having a child until I was 40 and decided it might be interesting, so spent years experiencing all the weird assumptions and snide remarks at neighbours’ parties. On the other hand, the obsessive ‘fur-babies’ type of pet owner makes me roll my eyes. I don’t think they’re related.

Having a child is definitely hard. But surely you can see the positive side too?

Isn't it noticeable how these threads soon show not only finger-pointing at the childfree, but barely-hidden disdain for those who love animals? It all boils down to telling women we should really get back to having children and having no life outside that.

I'm child free by choice and personally can't think of anything worse than being a parent - it looks absolutely horrendous.

I love my parents and had a great childhood but I honestly don't feel I'm selfless enough to raise a child. I don't want to give up two decades of my life to raise another person and it wouldn't be fair on any child to bring them into the world as it stands either, imo.

“More people than none”.

"Wholesome family life"? Someone's been watching Leave it to Beaver.

Not at all. More people are embracing bigger families again

What classes as more people?

I mean there are small movements like quiverfull in the US for example but if anything they seem to make the idea of having a big family even less appealing to the average person.

Have you read anything on the thread?

There is no going back in any case but I think it will create more losers than winners. That is my cynical take on it.

For example we’ve had shortages in many sectors especially care for years but the pay had not got drastically better.

Haha good luck trying to convince most women on that then.

Of course it's become unfashionable - or, at least, it's incompatible with modern life.

That's why, without immigration, the UK population would be both shrinking and getting older at a catastrophic rate.

Not at all. More people are embracing bigger families again. Bring back wholesome family life as it always was traditionally.

I definitely relate to the paet about men not stepping up in my culture they are still raised up to be men who go to work and women do everything else. I just refuse to be with a guy who thinks like that so here I am single and ill stay single rayher than saddle myself with a man child. I also don't have the urge to have children either so that helps me be more content about my single status

@OutsideLookingOut I’m a little scared of AI tbh, but I’m not sure how else we’ll manage when there are far more elderly than young people. When someone retires and there’s no one younger to replace them, we’ll have shortages in many sectors. Some jobs will become obsolete and others will become v. expensive as fewer people will work in them.

Some people think holidays abroad are a luxury, for example. I think they are important to developing fully rounded people with interests and experiences.

Loads of dc don’t go abroad but they are still well rounded adults and plenty of adults are not well rounded despite having holidays!

See what I'm wondering is it the fact that we have fewer kids that has led to these more demanding standards for baby care and parenting or is it the increasingly demanding standards that have been putting people off having kids or having bigger families?

There are far more expectations on parents nowadays vs my parents (I was born in the 80s).

I'm someone who's childfree by choice, and surrounded by friends who have children. Maybe it's because I actively don't want to go down that path, but they all confide in me just how difficult it is to be a parent these days.

Economically, they're all screwed - childcare is eyewateringly expensive, mortgage's are through the roof and the general cost of living is making it almost impossible for them to get by. They're not on minimum wage either - many in very good jobs. It absolutely stunts the career and they're starting to realise that you really can't have it all like all the films make out.

The support networks just aren't there - a generation of people raised by their grandparents whilst their own parents work, now not having that same support mechanism in place. I see both sides - so much of the "village" is dependent on womens unpaid labour and nobody ever asks Grandad to help out, but it's difficult when you're raised with the expectation that you'll have family around you because that's what your own parents had.

The expectations on parents and the constant criticism is brutal - how you give birth, how you feed the baby, how you comfort the baby, all of these things bring such strong opinions - usually from other parents, and it's so mentally draining feeling like you're constantly under fire for doing things "the wrong way". Again, they probably tell me these things because I know nothing about child rearing, and don't know what the "wrong way" or "right way" is.

Plus, men just aren't stepping up. Women are going above and beyond - 45% of women are the breadwinner these days. Men are still following the examples of their fathers and grandfathers and just not pulling their fair share - but they get praise for doing the bare minimum.

Unless you've got that innate biological urge that some posters mention on here for children - why on earth would you logically want to have a child? Your child will be at home until 40 due to not being able to afford to move out, the world will be burning down due to climate change or all out war, and as the mother, you're the one that takes all the crap and picks up all the dirt after everybody else.

Babies who die every 10-15 years. Then you just buy another one

Well aren't you a joy.

I'd like to say fuck off, but it would get me deleted.

Yes I would want so much more for a future child and at this point I don't think it is possible so better not to bring them into it! I'd go so far as saying money can buy happiness, not all the time, not in all circumstances but quite often if you don't start with much.