It’s becoming unfashionable to have kids

@LavenderHaze19 I agree with you. My DD (19) hasn’t decided yet whether she’ll have children or not- she definitely views it as a decision that she’ll make, not an assumption/social expectation. That’s very healthy and I’m glad that women now feel empowered to do that and that we have so many contraceptive choices available.

I also think that Gen Z have learnt from the myth that “having it all” is easy that my generation was sold. Balancing a family with your career isn’t easy, it’s bloomin’ hard work! You should do it if YOU really want children, not because other ppl tell you to.

I definitely think there’s been a mindset shift in the sense that young women in particular seem to be contemplating it more as an active choice rather than something that’s expected of them. And I also think people are much more open about the downsides of parenting now. I think that’s a really good thing.

If people are no longer having kids "because it's just what you do" that can only be a good thing.

I'm a fence sitter at 28 years old. I can get misty eyed at the thought of coming home from hospital with a baby, becoming a family, announcing pregnancy to family etc. However, the day to day grind, practicalities, energy and commitment it takes, the intensity of that relationship... most days I think I just don't want to. I expect quite a lot of people think the same.

As for the overall trend, I don't actually think it's about money, childcare, and careers. I think it's simply that women (and men) just don't want to do it and there are so many people without kids, that people don't feel unusual or alone anymore.

Having kids is no longer seen as culturally significant and something that's longed for, I think that's the main shift.

yes I knew you were going to say it was the daughter that became the only carer as it always is. I myself am that daughter. I solely care for my elderly parent who has dementia whilst brother doesn't even pick up the phone to speak to them.He has no Interest in our parent whatsoever. It's a shame as they always had a good relationship when parent was well. I know db will soon be around when they pass away to see what money he can't get his hands on.

It’s not about being fashionable, but I do get your point. It’s a good thing, surely. How wonderful is it that for the first time really in social history, women have a proper choice — no obligation, no expectation.

I am 28 and whilst I am a naturally maternal person, I have given children thought for many years and have decided I am unsure (so many factors; overpopulation of the planet, cost of living to name a couple) and know that if I do have one, it won’t be for many more years after even more thought. Isn’t that a good way to go about it, to be really and truly sure?

Also - what’s with the comments from previous posters judging young couples with pets? So bizarre. I got a puppy a few years ago and that genuinely helped me realise what a commitment and responsibility is all about. I think that’s a great thing to do long before a child.

Oh YES I saw the same trailer and said EXACTLY the same to OM And he agreed.

@Autumnismyfavouritetimeofyear everyday I thank my lucky stars I've never had that urge and been "desperate" for kids. I genuinely feel SO lucky and free from what I can only assume is an all consuming need with the way some women talk/act. Sounds like a curse. Poor kids tho. I don't really understand it because if I wanted kids I feel like choosing a decent father for them is the most important thing you can do. Not just pick the first one that comes along at the right time or settle for one that treats you like crap.

One of the saddest women I ever met was a friend of a friend - very smart, very sweet, kick ass job in professional sport , 2 adorable little girls. And married to the biggest knob head anyone in our group had ever met. Could be relied on to be drunk and obnoxious whenever in company. She had got to 30, been desperate for kids and 'settled' for him. 10 years later, he was making her life a living hell. She would not divorce him because she felt she could not manage to kids by herself. But you could see the situation sucking the life out of her.

As well as people who stay in bad relationships because they're desperate for DC, there are also people who have children because it's the "next stage" without really thinking about the long term consequences of being tied to said person for the rest of their lives.

I do agree that, in general, childless people put much more thought into their decision.

I actually saw an article about a woman who bought sperm on Facebook for £50 (from a guy who’s a father to about 1000 now) and got pregnant from that. Surely when you get to that stage you need to have a long, hard look at yourself!

I have seen this now and it’s sad but true. A number of single friends got to 30s and those with a burning desire to have children and an unwillingness or inability to go the solo mother route - just grabbed whatever man was available and wanted them and had kids with him.

With mixed results. Most are happy even if the accept the guy is terrible / they have no interest in him and he is basically just a sperm donor and co-parent.

I saw that program and was horrified at how low TV is sinking. Women are not rehabilitation centres for broken men! The only adequate response to dealing with a “bad boyfriend” is to dump him.

But in your desire to lash out you ended up with a rather disgusting diatribe that insults the childfree and childless at the same time. You just insisted that those already struggling with the pain of infertility will never experience the full range of human emotion and you pity them for that. That may not have been your intent but it was your impact. (And as for CF people, pitying people for not doing something they don’t want to do is really weird to be frank)

I did not see what the CF person said (the only comments I have seen were CF people saying child rearing does not interest them) but your response was bizarre. Akin to confronting racism with racism.

But the comment I responded to mentioned in-person support.

So that was the specific context of my post.

Did I say you said people should be forced to have children?

I wanted to add that. People always assume every human is a “productive member” of society. Many are not!

I always wonder about the people who have spent their whole lives revolving around kids.

At a certain point, how much help can you actually give? If you've never had a career or an education how are you supposed to raise people who will see the point - especially daughters? How much life advice in general can you give if you've barely had one?

Never mind if you can't afford to help them study or get on the property ladder.

I don't know. Really acknowledging my privilege here to have had parents that are worldly enough to have provided useful guidance beyond getting pregnant.

I also think if you are someone who has that urge to have kids then you end up settling for someone otherwise time passes by and clock runs out.

Also looking at some of my work friends one just stays with him cos he looks after the cats and has some good qualities but she has low self esteem and thinks she cant do better

A combination of factors

I kind of look at it like this - women (as a collective) are raised in a misogynistic and very patriarchal society. Their wants and beliefs are warped from birth onwards. Every outside source attempts to shape them to fit a standard pornbot/housewife model.

They are taught from day one both on and offline that they should seek a man and male approval and without it they are less important, less loved, less safe, less wanted, that they should stay silent or be a murmur of support. They are Karened, whored and bitched into submission from all angles their whole lives, by which I mean they are verbally abused and subjected to shunning and shaming behaviour if they don't follow the script - be pretty as you can, be nice, be kind, find a man, get a mate and tolerate.

Women are also more empathetic and compassionate than men - and I think that's inherent, not a learned response - and they want to give second and third chances, they want to believe that the person they love is capable of loving them back, and they project their own thoughts, beliefs and feelings onto their mates and the objects of their desire.

It takes a while for burn out and reality to set in, considering that we basically live in a societal matrix where we're groomed from birth to be a certain way.

So it's not really a surprise that so many of them fall for it and tolerate so much - and especially if they are given more (temporary and ultimately worthless) male cookies for doing so.

What I think is amazing that so many women and girls actually see it for what it is, and try to escape bad relationships and support one another in doing so.

Do you think your children have benefitted/are benefitting from being your whole life and identity? I think it does children good to know their parents are people in their own right and had a life before they were born, and are not just there to service their needs.

I was a bit horrified last night when I saw a trailer for a programme called Bad Boyfriends I think it is where young women were attempting to reform their shitty boyfriends. They should be kicking them into touch. Why do young women value themselves so little?

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I think people put more thought into not having children, than having them unfortunately

Absolutely. It's the dumbest justification I've ever heard as a reason for having kids, not to mention those kids may not even be productive members of society.