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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Original poster

To consider reporting him

215 replies

cantbelieveimaskingthis2 · 18/08/2024 17:25

I have a much younger brother who is now in his late 20s. He had a very difficult childhood as our parents have a lot of problems (disability, mental illness and some substance abuse), and whilst they love/d us, they often couldn’t care well for us. After I left home my bro was quite neglected, physically and emotionally.

I love him to bits, he was a gorgeous child. But I fear has not grown into a very nice adult.

The dilemma is this. He went to uni but having graduated with an ok degree, he has never had a job, ever. He doesn’t want to work in an office (fair enough) and has had various ideas but never settled on anything. However he rents a decent flat (i think a housing benefit scam maybe), always has plenty of disposable income. He travels extensively. He doesn’t live extravagantly but he has nice clothes, and travels well, ie: eats out for 3 meals a day for 6 months of the year when he is abroad.

It’s become apparent to me recently what is staring my family in the face which is there is no way he is coming by this money legally. My parents believe him when he says he’s just very frugal with his benefits money. But I know what things cost and there’s no way people on the dole can afford to be living it up in Thailand for months at a time? When I’ve asked him he’s given various excuses or deflections about investing in crypto but a few questions show he knows nothing about crypto so its obviously not true.

Our family are poor working class, there are no secret inheritances or anything.

So. I have concluded he’s probably up to no good but I can’t be sure. He‘s a gentle giant and i couldn’t imagine him harming anyone but he is a big bloke. He could if he wanted to. And with the amount of money and travel, it feels like he’s not small-time dabbling either. I have this feeling he’s doing something bad-bad. Something that could get him in real trouble. Or hurt. Or others hurt. But I have no evidence.

WIBU to report him to the police to try and force him out of whatever mess he is in?

I know for sure he will not listen even if I beg him to stop whatever it is I think he’s up to. After all he’s living his best life I guess.

OP posts:
BarHumbugs · 18/08/2024 21:20

You have no idea if he actually is doing anything illegal. People on benefits can't easily go on holiday for half a year without getting caught and what's he putting on his visa's as his source of income ffs? This is such a weird post.

We're not going to tell you reporting him is a good idea no matter how many times you say it's for his own good. To be honest, I think your family fucked you up more than you realise. Get some therapy and leave your poor brother alone.

Original poster
cantbelieveimaskingthis2 · 18/08/2024 21:20

Unicorndreams24 · 18/08/2024 21:05

He is your brother , reporting him to the police on your suspicions alone does not hold much weight.
And he is your brother and morally that would be so wrong.
It is up to him how he lives his life , if he is involved in illegal things he will know the risks of that anyway so why get involved?

But what if those illegal things involve hurting people? You’d just let it slide? Because he’s family?

that just feels morally so wrong to me

OP posts:
Original poster
cantbelieveimaskingthis2 · 18/08/2024 21:19

wizzywig · 18/08/2024 21:14

Isn't it against the rules for claiming benefits to be out of the country for that long? If he is up to something dodgy like child exploration, drugs, whatever, would he actually listen to you?

No he wouldn’t.

which is why i have put it out there on mumsnet whether a more drastic course of action to force him to stop could ever be justified.

the general consensus seems to be no though so that leaves me where i was, turning a blind eye and pretending it’s totally normal and kidding myself my brother is a nice guy really who’d never hurt anyone.

btw on cost of living in thailand, i get that but there’s loads of flights etc, there is some other detail but every time i include that my posts get filtered by mumsnet so let’s just say, i am absolutely sure we are talking big sums (tens of thousands) he is burning through, waaaaaay more than he’d have from benefits and with no access to credit

OP posts:
Original poster
cantbelieveimaskingthis2 · 18/08/2024 21:16

GhibliCat · 18/08/2024 20:56

What a nasty sister you are.

a few posters have said this and i’ll put it to you like I have them,

if you were totally certain a family member was involved in bad crime, not petty victimless crime, but some bad stuff, what would you do? You would never ever report it?

i haven’t done so far. But i’m frightened he’ll end up murdered because drug traffickers don’t tend to retire happily to the country at the end of their careers.

You’d let it be and just let things run their course?

If so fair enough but i don’t think i can be described as nasty for wanting to save him from his own dreadful actions

OP posts:
knittingandminim · 18/08/2024 21:15

Thailand has a very low cost of living. A meal out, as you've mentioned, would cost the equivalent of 50p, maximum £2 if he was really living it up. Even hotel prices tend to be less than £5 a day.

wizzywig · 18/08/2024 21:14

Isn't it against the rules for claiming benefits to be out of the country for that long? If he is up to something dodgy like child exploration, drugs, whatever, would he actually listen to you?

Unicorndreams24 · 18/08/2024 21:05

He is your brother , reporting him to the police on your suspicions alone does not hold much weight.
And he is your brother and morally that would be so wrong.
It is up to him how he lives his life , if he is involved in illegal things he will know the risks of that anyway so why get involved?

Fluufer · 18/08/2024 21:04

cantbelieveimaskingthis2 · 18/08/2024 20:55

Sorry if the thread has drip-fed a bit and there are loads of posts.

but i can say on this, i am absolutely completely certain. I don’t have firm evidence as I am not in the drugs trade and am not going to stalk my bro for evidence against him.

the only people walking round with thousands in cash in their pockets, with no access to other family money, no debt (he has ccjs so can’t borrow) are builders or drug dealers. And he’s not a builder.

as another poster helpfully commented, a blind idiot could tell he’s a gangster. I’ve stuck my head in the sand for years. I don’t know if now i should do something.

he won’t stop because i ask nicely.

what would you do?

Show quote history

You're not "absolutely completely certain". You haven't spoken to him and you have no evidence.
Not sure what you said to me earlier that was deleted... but ask him. 1. He's a drug dealer and confesses. 2. He's a drug dealer and he lies. 3. He gives a legitimate explanation.
Quite why you can't just ask him how he affords all those holidays his benefits I don't know.

LondonFox · 18/08/2024 20:58

Lol why would you report your own adult, mentaly stable brother?
You cannot force people to change and you just sound obessed how better his life is compare to the rest of the family

GhibliCat · 18/08/2024 20:56

What a nasty sister you are.

Original poster
cantbelieveimaskingthis2 · 18/08/2024 20:56

LibertyPrime · 18/08/2024 20:50

intelligence services or uncover military etc would be my guess, we live with various intelligence agencies across the world ect, or do people forget james bonds exists etc

Show quote history

I would love it if this were true 😁

OP posts:
Original poster
cantbelieveimaskingthis2 · 18/08/2024 20:55

LibertyPrime · 18/08/2024 20:50

because your assuming without any concrete intelligence

Show quote history

Sorry if the thread has drip-fed a bit and there are loads of posts.

but i can say on this, i am absolutely completely certain. I don’t have firm evidence as I am not in the drugs trade and am not going to stalk my bro for evidence against him.

the only people walking round with thousands in cash in their pockets, with no access to other family money, no debt (he has ccjs so can’t borrow) are builders or drug dealers. And he’s not a builder.

as another poster helpfully commented, a blind idiot could tell he’s a gangster. I’ve stuck my head in the sand for years. I don’t know if now i should do something.

he won’t stop because i ask nicely.

what would you do?

OP posts:
cantbelieveimaskingthis2 · 18/08/2024 20:51

This reply has been hidden

This reply has been hidden until the MNHQ team can have a look at it.

LibertyPrime · 18/08/2024 20:50

cantbelieveimaskingthis2 · 18/08/2024 20:39

But whyyyyyy do you say that if i genuinely am concerned he’s doing crime which is hurting people?

i get the comments that say no there’s no point it won’t help anything.

but i don’t understand the comments which say reporting a family member you suspect for crimes is morally wrong? I genuinely want to understand your point.

I’ve posted loads but the long and short of it is, this is more than a hunch, i’m completely sure

Show quote history

because your assuming without any concrete intelligence

LibertyPrime · 18/08/2024 20:50

cantbelieveimaskingthis2 · 18/08/2024 17:40

Dunno… my suspicions? I can make a pretty educated guess as to what all those trips to thailand and mexico are about

Show quote history

intelligence services or uncover military etc would be my guess, we live with various intelligence agencies across the world ect, or do people forget james bonds exists etc

Original poster
cantbelieveimaskingthis2 · 18/08/2024 20:49

Fluufer · 18/08/2024 20:15

I still don't understand how you know what benefits he claims, know when and where he travels, how much it costs etc but how he has so much money has never come up in conversation. Very odd. How do you know he doesn't have a job? Have you ever asked or have you just assumed? If you do in fact "know" he is a drug dealing with a history of violence, why do you still spend time with him?

I know for a fact he’s never had a job because he’s my brother! Do you not know what your immediate family members do for a living?

sorry it’s all probably a bit of a drip, but i have explained on the thread that when i’ve asked over the years how he can afford travel etc he’s had various reasons including crypto, ‘investments’, and honestly i have preferred not to dig. But when i have asked basic follow up questions it’s clear he’s lying and then he ends the conversation. I don’t like to upset him because he had a rotten childhood and i tend to give him the benefit of the doubt. But this has been going on nearly a decade and I feel after the last time i saw him where it was totally clear to me and everyone we were with that he is up to his neck in some dodgy dealings i can’t ignore the facts any more. Up until a month or so ago i was telling myself ‘well i’m sure it’s not totally legit what he’s been up to but he’d never hurt anyone’. Now i‘m mot so sure. And having reflected, i can deduct logically that over a long period working in crime, he probably has harmed people. As a result i’m not going to be around him any more as i can’t have my kids around that.

i know what universal credit is and that he’s not entitled to more.

i know the sums involved for a bunch of reasons including him walking around with huuuuge bundles of notes and also giving our elderly dad big whacks of thousands in paper money cash to wire to him at abroad destinations because he doesn’t trust banks.

OP posts:
Fluufer · 18/08/2024 20:45

Why can't you just ask him where his money comes from? You apparently know which benefits he gets, so discussions of finances clearly aren't off the table.

Kangarude · 18/08/2024 20:44

I accept that you’re concerned for your brother. I seem to recall that the police used to circulate posters with pictures of flashy cars and jewellery and ask for people to report if their neighbours/friends were apparently living beyond their means. On that basis, you could ring Crimestoppers anonymously. The police may already have some intelligence and it all adds up.
Alternatively, report to the benefits agency

AgathaSultana · 18/08/2024 20:42

You've got no evidence so just tell him to be careful with whatever he's up to and get on with your life

Original poster
cantbelieveimaskingthis2 · 18/08/2024 20:39

olpo · 18/08/2024 20:08

What an ugly thing to consider doing.

But whyyyyyy do you say that if i genuinely am concerned he’s doing crime which is hurting people?

i get the comments that say no there’s no point it won’t help anything.

but i don’t understand the comments which say reporting a family member you suspect for crimes is morally wrong? I genuinely want to understand your point.

I’ve posted loads but the long and short of it is, this is more than a hunch, i’m completely sure

OP posts:
Username197 · 18/08/2024 20:20

@cantbelieveimaskingthis2

I think you’re getting a really shitty time here. I think one of your posts where you express concern about what could happen if he got caught smuggling drugs abroad shows you care. I don’t think you’re coming across jealous at all!

The police are absolutely concerned about drug trade. It ruins lives and causes them so many other crimes- violence, disorder, theft, grooming, prostitution, etc.

Given UC pays about £400 a month for a single person and that’s to cover all bills (except rent, usually will get a housing allowance element for or towards that) you are right to be concerned about where this amount of money is coming from. He definitely hasn’t come into via inheritance etc?

If you’ve exhausted all efforts of trying to stop your brother, I would share your concerns with the police. It might be money laundering/benefit fraud which they’ll be able to look into. Perhaps tip them off with the dates of next planned trip/return date. It would be far safer to face a penalty in the UK than a county with possible death penalty.

Fluufer · 18/08/2024 20:15

I still don't understand how you know what benefits he claims, know when and where he travels, how much it costs etc but how he has so much money has never come up in conversation. Very odd. How do you know he doesn't have a job? Have you ever asked or have you just assumed? If you do in fact "know" he is a drug dealing with a history of violence, why do you still spend time with him?

olpo · 18/08/2024 20:08

What an ugly thing to consider doing.

wippandzipp · 18/08/2024 20:04

He is on benefits? Means tested? He has money to travel for 6 months staying in airbnb and hotels? I'm sure the gov benefits office would like to know this, doubt police would be interested.

JLou08 · 18/08/2024 19:55

cantbelieveimaskingthis2 · 18/08/2024 19:47

As a general point on this thread it’s quite interesting. I’ve come on as I have a genuine moral conundrum - that i’ve sort of felt maybe i should be morally obligated if I suspected wrongdoing to report it.

Very much the mood music is no, just leave it. I tend to follow group consensus which is why I asked the question, because I want others’ input.

BUT one more question. Because I wonder is this the case for ANY scenario with a family member, we should never report to the police?

what if i suspected he was abusing his girlfriend?

what if i suspected he was a murderer?

what if i suspected he was a bank robber?

It seems to me that because I suspect he’s involved in drugs that maybe sways people as it’s seen as a victimless crime? But if i’m right (spoiler alert: i’m certain i’m right), loads of people will be being harmed as a result of his actions. I guess I’m just surprised.

Either way, I’ll follow the group view. I’ll tell him what I suspect. I imagine he’ll admit it (i know him and when cornered i think he’ll fess up). I’ll ask him to change his ways. He won’t, but at least i’ll feel i’ve done what i can.

If your brother is doing what you say he is then you reporting him will have zero impact on victims of drug crime. There are too many drugs and dealers out there so any drug user will easily find the next hit. Drugs are also rife in prison so he could continue it if he was in prison. So no, I wouldn't report a family member for drug dealing.
If a family member was abusing an individual I would take steps to intervene myself first and get the person to safety. If that didn't work then I would possibly report because the victim of that abuse would benefit from the report. I say possibly because if it's an adult being abused I would involve them in the decision to report. If it was a child I would report without hesitation.

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