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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Original poster

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215 replies

cantbelieveimaskingthis2 · 18/08/2024 17:25

I have a much younger brother who is now in his late 20s. He had a very difficult childhood as our parents have a lot of problems (disability, mental illness and some substance abuse), and whilst they love/d us, they often couldn’t care well for us. After I left home my bro was quite neglected, physically and emotionally.

I love him to bits, he was a gorgeous child. But I fear has not grown into a very nice adult.

The dilemma is this. He went to uni but having graduated with an ok degree, he has never had a job, ever. He doesn’t want to work in an office (fair enough) and has had various ideas but never settled on anything. However he rents a decent flat (i think a housing benefit scam maybe), always has plenty of disposable income. He travels extensively. He doesn’t live extravagantly but he has nice clothes, and travels well, ie: eats out for 3 meals a day for 6 months of the year when he is abroad.

It’s become apparent to me recently what is staring my family in the face which is there is no way he is coming by this money legally. My parents believe him when he says he’s just very frugal with his benefits money. But I know what things cost and there’s no way people on the dole can afford to be living it up in Thailand for months at a time? When I’ve asked him he’s given various excuses or deflections about investing in crypto but a few questions show he knows nothing about crypto so its obviously not true.

Our family are poor working class, there are no secret inheritances or anything.

So. I have concluded he’s probably up to no good but I can’t be sure. He‘s a gentle giant and i couldn’t imagine him harming anyone but he is a big bloke. He could if he wanted to. And with the amount of money and travel, it feels like he’s not small-time dabbling either. I have this feeling he’s doing something bad-bad. Something that could get him in real trouble. Or hurt. Or others hurt. But I have no evidence.

WIBU to report him to the police to try and force him out of whatever mess he is in?

I know for sure he will not listen even if I beg him to stop whatever it is I think he’s up to. After all he’s living his best life I guess.

OP posts:
Original poster
cantbelieveimaskingthis2 · 18/08/2024 22:38

Lizzie67384 · 18/08/2024 22:35

Out of interest, how is he scamming housing benefit?

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The one i know about is he got a lease on an expensive flat, then claimed unemployment and got housing benefit to cover the rent, then sublet the room for more than he was paying in rent, and then moved to a way smaller / cheaper place. I’m not sure of the details (as i didn’t want to know, i don’t approve), but he explained it as he was quite pleased with himself

OP posts:
Lizzie67384 · 18/08/2024 22:36

cantbelieveimaskingthis2 · 18/08/2024 22:35

I don’t have a vendetta against him. I love him to distraction, i pretty much raised him when we were young, and my fear that he will come to harm is very real.

If he gets murdered in some drugs deal gone wrong and i could have prevented it i will never forgive myself.

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Raised him? You said you were both millennials but in your OP you say he’s much younger? I don’t think this post can be real

Lizzie67384 · 18/08/2024 22:35

cantbelieveimaskingthis2 · 18/08/2024 22:31

Hm fair enough it probably seems that way. Some of this is my thoughts evolving as the thread has gone on. Some is that mumsnet have filtered out loads of my posts.

educated guess / absolutely certain - choice of words. I have made an educated guess by excluding every other possibility. Having made that guess i am totally sure i am right.

i know he is scamming benefits, not least for the fact he’s constantly travelling when he shouldn’t be, and he is scamming housing benefit. He has been pretty open with me about that.

the housing benefit thing is bad but that alone cannot explain what i’m seeing. So i am absolutely sure he is also doing bad stuff with drugs. The travel, the burner phones, the cash… c’mon, it’s obvious.

I don’t think he is a mastermind. I don’t think you need to be a mastermind to be a drug dealer or to make a lot of money from it. And yeah, showing people you have a wad of thousands in your pocket is a not-bright thing to do!

Show quote history

Out of interest, how is he scamming housing benefit?

Original poster
cantbelieveimaskingthis2 · 18/08/2024 22:35

Lizzie67384 · 18/08/2024 22:24

To be honest, it sounds like you have a vendetta against him and if I was the police I’d be wondering why and whether this constituted harrasement?! Given you have literally no evidence so you can’t be ‘100% sure’ lol

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I don’t have a vendetta against him. I love him to distraction, i pretty much raised him when we were young, and my fear that he will come to harm is very real.

If he gets murdered in some drugs deal gone wrong and i could have prevented it i will never forgive myself.

OP posts:
Mintchocco · 18/08/2024 22:32

OP to give you the benefit of the doubt, you really love and care for your brother than I understand wanting to protect them.

Unfortunately, sometimes we simply can't and adults will make their own choices and have to live by them.

We can give advice but you cannot force someone to listen. It's crap but that is just the way it is.

I don't see what choice you have based on your posts.

Original poster
cantbelieveimaskingthis2 · 18/08/2024 22:31

Josephinesnapoleon · 18/08/2024 22:21

This is all over the place. I can make an educated guess, i know for sure, it’s housing benefit, it’s drugs, he’s thousands, he’s not smart, he’s a criminal mastermind making thousands and thousands.

at least stick to one line,

Hm fair enough it probably seems that way. Some of this is my thoughts evolving as the thread has gone on. Some is that mumsnet have filtered out loads of my posts.

educated guess / absolutely certain - choice of words. I have made an educated guess by excluding every other possibility. Having made that guess i am totally sure i am right.

i know he is scamming benefits, not least for the fact he’s constantly travelling when he shouldn’t be, and he is scamming housing benefit. He has been pretty open with me about that.

the housing benefit thing is bad but that alone cannot explain what i’m seeing. So i am absolutely sure he is also doing bad stuff with drugs. The travel, the burner phones, the cash… c’mon, it’s obvious.

I don’t think he is a mastermind. I don’t think you need to be a mastermind to be a drug dealer or to make a lot of money from it. And yeah, showing people you have a wad of thousands in your pocket is a not-bright thing to do!

OP posts:
Lizzie67384 · 18/08/2024 22:24

cantbelieveimaskingthis2 · 18/08/2024 22:23

No loan, he has ccjs and no access to credit.

As i’ve said elsewhere on the thread, i am 100% sure on the criminal activity part. I know that he is not doing cash in hand work.

If i went to the police and i was wrong i’d be totally relieved! I don’t want my brother to be a bad guy. I love him.

I also don’t know how going to the cops would work, i guess i thought i’d tell them what i thought and why and let them decide if they’d investigate or not. If they found he was doing bad stuff they’d make him stop. It does sound kind of naive reading it back!

Show quote history

To be honest, it sounds like you have a vendetta against him and if I was the police I’d be wondering why and whether this constituted harrasement?! Given you have literally no evidence so you can’t be ‘100% sure’ lol

Original poster
cantbelieveimaskingthis2 · 18/08/2024 22:23

Lizzie67384 · 18/08/2024 22:12

Maybe he took out a loan and/or is living off credit cards?

Maybe he is doing cash in hand work that he doesn’t want to declare in case he loses his benefits.

Wouldn’t you feel quite embarrassed going to the police station to report your own brother for an unknown crime, despite having no evidence?

Show quote history

No loan, he has ccjs and no access to credit.

As i’ve said elsewhere on the thread, i am 100% sure on the criminal activity part. I know that he is not doing cash in hand work.

If i went to the police and i was wrong i’d be totally relieved! I don’t want my brother to be a bad guy. I love him.

I also don’t know how going to the cops would work, i guess i thought i’d tell them what i thought and why and let them decide if they’d investigate or not. If they found he was doing bad stuff they’d make him stop. It does sound kind of naive reading it back!

OP posts:
Josephinesnapoleon · 18/08/2024 22:21

This is all over the place. I can make an educated guess, i know for sure, it’s housing benefit, it’s drugs, he’s thousands, he’s not smart, he’s a criminal mastermind making thousands and thousands.

at least stick to one line,

Lizzie67384 · 18/08/2024 22:20

cantbelieveimaskingthis2 · 18/08/2024 22:17

He’s not that bright, truly. I wouldn’t say he’s flashing it but he’s not as circumspact as you’d think, like when i have had to take out big amounts to pay builders etc i have put the money in my shoe as i’m so paranoid. But no he’s quite blatant about it

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But if he’s not that bright, surely he’d have been caught by now?

For all you know he could have a rich older boyfriend/girlfriend financing his lifestyle - sugar baby type thing. There’s sooo many other things it could be, why did you immediately leap to drug smuggling?

Original poster
cantbelieveimaskingthis2 · 18/08/2024 22:17

Lizzie67384 · 18/08/2024 22:13

Also why would someone be flashing thousands in cash, especially if they were dealing/smuggling drugs? Surely you’d be keeping it on the DL… 🤣

Show quote history

He’s not that bright, truly. I wouldn’t say he’s flashing it but he’s not as circumspact as you’d think, like when i have had to take out big amounts to pay builders etc i have put the money in my shoe as i’m so paranoid. But no he’s quite blatant about it

OP posts:
Mintchocco · 18/08/2024 22:16

Although, the police do not even deal with benefit fraud. So really, there is nothing you can currently report.

Mintchocco · 18/08/2024 22:15

Then go to the police on benefit fraud. That's all you have right now.

Mintchocco · 18/08/2024 22:15

Well, as it stands, it is the only thing you could reasonably take to the police anyway.

All the other stuff is just a hunch you have which unfortunately isn't gonna hold up without proof.

Whether it's morally correct is a different matter - you don't know and we certainly don't know what he is doing or if he even is doing something bad. So really, my answer remains the same - leave it alone.

Original poster
cantbelieveimaskingthis2 · 18/08/2024 22:14

Mintchocco · 18/08/2024 22:10

it just doesn't make any sense OP.

You don't want him to end up in jail but you are going to report him to the police?

What do you think will happen then?

At what point do you think, do you know what I actually don't know how he is making his money, he has chosen not to share with me every aspect of his life, he is an adult and I need to respect that?

i’ve explained this before. 2 reasons.

  1. i am worried he is going to come to some awful harm, be murdered or end up in a foreign jail.
  2. I have big moral concerns about how many people he could be hurting in his line of work.

on the basis of 1, being in a uk system and being prevented from doing to bad stuff any more could save him from further harm and force him on a different path. On 2, i’m worried by looking the other way i’m culpable.

OP posts:
Lizzie67384 · 18/08/2024 22:13

Edenmum2 · 18/08/2024 22:05

Does he have thousands of pounds in his pockets every time you see him? Are you 100% sure it's thousands? Does he get it out and flash it around? I don't think I would ever know how much money my siblings have in their pockets....is he showing off with it?

What does he say when you ask him why he's walking around with thousands in cash?

Also why would someone be flashing thousands in cash, especially if they were dealing/smuggling drugs? Surely you’d be keeping it on the DL… 🤣

WolabiMe · 18/08/2024 22:12

I’d imagine it’s sex tourism/ people trafficking rather than drugs if he’s spending prolonged periods in places such as these

Lizzie67384 · 18/08/2024 22:12

cantbelieveimaskingthis2 · 18/08/2024 17:59

But I think he has. Pretty bad crimes. Because nothing else really makes sense in terms of how he’s coming by all this cash. And I can kid myself probably he’s just doing stuff where no one gets hurt but really I don’t think you make that amount of money doing illegal stuff where no one gets hurt. I’m really worried.

Show quote history

Maybe he took out a loan and/or is living off credit cards?

Maybe he is doing cash in hand work that he doesn’t want to declare in case he loses his benefits.

Wouldn’t you feel quite embarrassed going to the police station to report your own brother for an unknown crime, despite having no evidence?

Original poster
cantbelieveimaskingthis2 · 18/08/2024 22:11

Mintchocco · 18/08/2024 22:08

If you are trying to work out what to report him on, haven't you answered your own question by claiming you KNOW he is committing benefit fraud?

I wasn’t trying to work out what to report him for. That wasn’t my question. If i just wanted to do him over i could report him for benefits sure. But i don’t want to hurt him, I love him. But i’m conflicted as to whether it’s the morally right thing to do to force him, through the law if necessary, to stop what he’s doing on the likely drug stuff. I’m frightened for him and for others he could be harming.

OP posts:
Mintchocco · 18/08/2024 22:10

it just doesn't make any sense OP.

You don't want him to end up in jail but you are going to report him to the police?

What do you think will happen then?

At what point do you think, do you know what I actually don't know how he is making his money, he has chosen not to share with me every aspect of his life, he is an adult and I need to respect that?

Original poster
cantbelieveimaskingthis2 · 18/08/2024 22:08

Newsenmum · 18/08/2024 22:06

Have you said “are you smuggling drugs?”

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Not yet. I think i will. I think i’ll say it more like ‘the elephant in the room is, we all know how you’re making your money’

OP posts:
Mintchocco · 18/08/2024 22:08

If you are trying to work out what to report him on, haven't you answered your own question by claiming you KNOW he is committing benefit fraud?

Original poster
cantbelieveimaskingthis2 · 18/08/2024 22:07

Edenmum2 · 18/08/2024 22:05

Does he have thousands of pounds in his pockets every time you see him? Are you 100% sure it's thousands? Does he get it out and flash it around? I don't think I would ever know how much money my siblings have in their pockets....is he showing off with it?

What does he say when you ask him why he's walking around with thousands in cash?

Fat wads of 20s so yeah thousands.

and it would be if he’s paying for something i’d see the cash yes, as he doesn’t use cards as he doesn’t trust banks…

OP posts:
Newsenmum · 18/08/2024 22:06

cantbelieveimaskingthis2 · 18/08/2024 22:03

He told me.

Sorry mumsnet keep filtering my posts where i say what i ‘know’ so i’m trying to be cautious in my language

Show quote history

Have you said “are you smuggling drugs?”

Newsenmum · 18/08/2024 22:05

Fluufer · 18/08/2024 21:52

If you know he is committing benefits fraud, report him for that. If he is, I'm sure the police will be able to pick up from there if he's actually up to anything.

That’s a really good point.

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