To think this is neuro diverse?

Autism is a communication difference

Its not. This really minimizes the impact autism has. It’s not helpful to misrepresent it like this.

It’s so much more than this.

Not understanding is not the same as not empathising. This makes absolutely no sense. If you can’t understand what someone else is thinking or feeling then you cannot empathize with them.

It's also rather unreasonable of you to say that autism is " a serious impairment into being able to know other people as separate people in their own right". It would have been unreasonable if I had said it. Read again.

You cannot extrapolate from your knowledge of 1 autistic person into deciding that you know all autism. I also didn’t say that. Your hyperbolic black and white thinking is out of place ( though extremely familiar).

However, my husband is autistic, this is how his autism manifests ( or one of the ways), and I know from the many support groups I am that his expression is far from unusual.

Autism is a communication difference.

Your husband may lack empathy - I don't know him - but lacking "the ability to (to perceive or) understand other people’s thoughts, perceptions and behaviours" is not the same as lacking empathy. Not understanding is not the same as not empathising. It's also rather unreasonable of you to say that autism is " a serious impairment into being able to know other people as separate people in their own right". You cannot extrapolate from your knowledge of 1 autistic person into deciding that you know all autism, and better than autistic people. Fwiw in my work with hundreds of autistic people over quarter of a century I would say you are completely wrong that autism is a lack of being able to know other people as separate. I would say well over 90 percent of autistics are acutely aware of their difference from other people and that they are somehow unacceptable to most "mainstream" people. They don't always understand why, but they almost always perceived the difference.

Indeed, it had crossed my mind.
well worked out 👍

I’m quite tired of hearing this. My H has autism and he absolutely lacks empathy and the ability to understand other people’s thoughts, perceptions and bahaviours. His lack of empathy is the only area of his autism he has insight into ( very limited insight into). it’s not a communication issue. It’s a serious impairment into being able to know other people as separate people in their own right. He doesn’t have zero empathy, but his ability to empathize is limited and very context specific.

He does also have Alexithymia which is correlated with low empathy, and as Alexithymia is highly correlated with autism, some have suggested it’s this that causes the poor empathy associated with autism. So that may be it, but it’s rather a moot point given the high coincidence of the two conditions.

I'm nd, I've spent my whole life feeling ashamed and embarrassed. Isn't it narcissistic people who don't?

It does dpeend, most of my friends are the same, overanalyse and agonise over things.
But I have also taught ND students who were very much aline to the feelings of empathy and shame and embarassment.
I also know NT people who have no shame nor embarassment.

The bototm line is that ND is a very broad term and one thing does not put anyone as ND at all, it has to be a set of traits and even then, it's a very wide spectrum. OP would need to seek diagnosis that can help her navigate this.

Yes, me too. I'm extremely self conscious and if I feel like I've said or done the wrong thing or done something embarrassing, I usually have to fight the urge to leave the situation and never go back 🫣
I remember minor embarrassments or social mistakes very clearly years or even decades later.
When I was a kid (and less so as an adult), at night I would go over the whole day in my head thinking about what I did right and mainly, what I did wrong.

100% - most people on the neurodivergent spectrum feel empathy, sometimes to an extreme degree.

I have ASD, as has DS, and we spend A LOT of time over analysing and feeling embarrassment and shame about really ridiculous, little things (we both have what was previously knows as Asperger's though, which can present rather differently to other ASD traits). We are both also very empathetic.

Autism is indeed a broad spectrum.

I'm autistic and always got embarrassed about absolutely everything. I've had to teach myself not to be. So I don't think it's an ND trait either way.

I thought the poster was thinking about psychopathy...

Emotions are a form of communication, so in the nature of ASD it’s less about lacking empathy but miscommunications around it. So it’s more typical of an ND person to show ‘empathy’ or connection of understanding by relaying a story about themselves that they believe shows empathy, but to the person they’re talking to it sounds like they’re making the situation all about them. Fully lacking empathy is a sign of other issues/trauma. But yes, it makes for greater career opportunities - politicians in the top positions do not get there for being genuinely empathetic people.

Can't say as I ever feel shame because I don't really do anything to feel ashamed about! I'm sure if I did I would feel it though!

I don't feel embarrassed in my day to day life as I'm confident and outspoken and can easily turn something into a joke or a laugh even at my own expense.

I would probably feel embarrassed at a medical appointment if I had to discuss bodily functions, but that's quite normal I guess?

I know someone with ASD who also doesn't feel embarrassment. It sort of made him a good canvasser because he had no fear of rejection or if making a fool of himself, but he would also say totally inappropriate things (beyond just being blunt).

That's all I read it as too (just a question).

Weird knee-jerk response from the PP 😳

The only person I know who doesn't feel embarassment or shame or have any empathy is my brother. I'd bet my entire jaffa cake collection on him being a functioning psychopath.

Yep, they're my default position.

Oh yes, my ex didn’t always feel appropriate embarrassment if that makes sense. Like he’d say something completely inappropriate and not understand why someone would be offended or embarrassed by it. But he would get embarrassed by criticism (for example being brought up on saying the inappropriate thing). He’d argue the toss about why he shouldn’t feel embarrassed by things that would cause that feeling for others. For example he’d not wear professional clothing, things with holes in them. Wasn’t embarrassed about it until pulled up on it, and then felt shamed because he was criticised and not because he couldn’t be arsed to replace clothing to look presentable. Most people would be embarrassed to get to work knowing they looks scruffy that day but he’d carry on without a second thought because how he came over to others was a ‘you problem’.

Many people with autism absolutely do have empathy, some others dont.

It depends a little on what you mean by empathy. ASD and theory of mind are linked. And without well-developed theory of mind, true emotional empathy is difficult. You can care, you can logically work it out, but that visceral fellow-feeling must have an element of theory of mind, surely.

I think it's difficult because 'lacking empathy' is seen as a terrible failing. But many jobs, from surgeon to racing driver, require a basic lack of empathy. You can't cut into someone if you are a very empathetic person.

Every neurodiverse person I know including myself are exactly the opposite, shame and embarrassment are our primary emotions.

Neurodiverse people do not have no empathy. So sick of this nonsense being repeated.

The question was simply that- a question.

Not a diagnosis nor a judgement.

Personally I’m autistic and have no idea what your problem is.

I'm autistic and get embarrassed by things like that (varying amounts dependent on exact circumstances) as do my neurodiverse family members so I don't think this is specifically anything to do with neurodiversity. I also have empathy, probably too much if anything.