Random stranger sat on my table at a dinner and tribute act show

@shuggles How do men distinguish between women in public who are willing to talk to men and those who are not, before speaking to them?

The issue in the OP's case wasn't that he spoke to her, it's that he kept on speaking to her and being in her close presence when it was clear it wasn't wanted.

@Livingtothefull I take your point that it may be easier all round if it was more socially usual for women to approach men. Many women won't do it though as they are worried that a friendly approach would be misconstrued, given how hard it is even now to manage the expectations of certain men. In many conversations with a man (however nice he seems) I am having to mentally jump ahead to think 'Am I going to be able to get rid of him when I want, without a lot of unpleasantness or even danger?' That is not paranoia either, it is bitter experience.

Except you have overlooked the fact that the reason why men (wrongly) pursue women relentlessly, even when a woman has expressed disinterest, is because western culture around dating and relationships teaches men to keep pursuing women to try to change their mind. This culture would not exist if women approached men instead.

Random man approaches woman at her table and manipulates her into acquiescing to him sitting at her table - an immediate turn off, surely a decent man would be sensitive to the fact that a woman might feel intimidated by that.

What do you suggest instead? Random man approaches a group of women?where he will be unable to have a clear conversation with any specific individual, will be criticised for ruining the night out that the group of women are having, and will find himself to be ridiculed?

@Zow This ^ Not every lone women out in public wants or needs to be rescued by some entitled random man who thinks every woman owes him attention, a conversation, and a smile, (and a fucking dance according to the OP!')

How do men distinguish between women in public who are willing to talk to men and those who are not, before speaking to them?

I take your point that it may be easier all round if it was more socially usual for women to approach men. Many women won't do it though as they are worried that a friendly approach would be misconstrued, given how hard it is even now to manage the expectations of certain men. In many conversations with a man (however nice he seems) I am having to mentally jump ahead to think 'Am I going to be able to get rid of him when I want, without a lot of unpleasantness or even danger?' That is not paranoia either, it is bitter experience.

Funnily enough men & women mostly manage to meet and get together/form relationships even if it may take a little time. The problem is not men chatting to women, it is how badly some men get it wrong as in the situation OP described.

Random man approaches woman at her table and manipulates her into acquiescing to him sitting at her table - an immediate turn off, surely a decent man would be sensitive to the fact that a woman might feel intimidated by that.

Random man's first question is a presumptuous and inappropriate 'why are you here alone?'. Random man doesn't take OP mentioning her husband as he should, a polite 'I am not interested in you'. Random man talks inappropriately about his divorce to a total stranger.

Random man stays put when OP suggests his friends might be missing him - another hint not taken. Random man tries to get OP to dance despite her not wanting to. OP needs to be really blunt to get rid of him. It ends with OP feeling her evening has been spoiled

And yet a few posters complain this bluntness is rude - despite all the rudeness in this situation clearly being on the man's side.

This ^ Not every lone women out in public wants or needs to be rescued by some entitled random man who thinks every woman owes him attention, a conversation, and a smile, (and a fucking dance according to the OP!')

Men need to learn that women are not their fucking property, and women don't owe men SHIT.

@shuggles there's nothing wrong with conversation between a man and a woman, I like chatting to people.
It depends on situation though surely?
You don't just start rabbiting on at someone sat enjoying a show and being out by themselves.
Sometimes it's nice being out by yourself, enjoying your own company.

@Warmfeet · Today 00:49

It's quite an odd thing to go to on your own though, so probably thought you'd been stood up and felt sorry for you.

As previous posters have said, you must lead a very limited and closed life if you think it's odd for women to do anything alone. Like many other posters, whilst I enjoy company sometimes, I LOVE doing stuff on my own too. I particularly enjoy going for walks alone. I don't like going for walks with other people, as I like to go at my own pace, go my own chosen route, and stop and start up again when I wish.

I met a couple in passing tending to their horse in a little field attached to their property (several years ago,) around a mile from my home, and she started chatting to me - just passing the time of day, and she spoke a few more times when I passed. He came to join her a few times. 'Seen you walking around quite often' he said.' Yes I do like to walk.' I replied.

About the 10th time I passed by them (this was about 3 months after the first time I met them,) I spoke for a few minutes and then said 'I'd best go because my husband and I are off to see our 2 adult DC later and I need to get ready.' She was like >>> 'Whaaaaa? You have a husband and kids?' I said 'errr yep. My husband doesn't care for walks, and my 2 kids live 15 miles away.'

She looked gobsmacked, and said 'I didn't know you had anyone, I thought you were a lonely. (What the fuck is a 'lonely?' ) I said 'oh no, I'm married over 30 years now, 2 kids both left home now but we see them a few times a month.' 'Awww that's nice' she said, 'I thought you were a lonely person who had no-one, looking to chat to people.' I was like 😐

I said 'errrr, anyway, I best be off.' I changed the route I walked after that, because the more I thought about it the more annoyed I felt. So any woman on her own, must be a sad lonely little loser who is desperate to find someone to talk to her?!!! Fucking hell!

@Zow Women going out looking/hoping for a connection with a man (and wanting to meet someone/be in a relationship,) is NOT THE SAME as men hitting on lone women and forcing their attention on conversation on them.

So we have:

a. A woman in public who is hoping for a connection with a man, a desire to meet people, and a desire to be in the relationship.
b. A single man in public.

How do a. and b. talk to each other without the man "hitting on lone women and forcing their attention on conversation on them"?

You just don't get it @shuggles Women going out looking/hoping for a connection with a man (and wanting to meet someone/be in a relationship,) is NOT THE SAME as men hitting on lone women and forcing their attention on conversation on them.

I'm not wasting any more of my time explaining the obvious to you. I can only surmise that you are a man, and I'm done with you. Same goes to anyone else who has the same thoughts and attitude as you.

@Zow But he didn't DID he? He sat next to a woman who he suspected would be more compliant and weak, and who he could hopefully get to shag later. How wrong he was!

Right. But the reason why men do this is because it's seemingly the only way to speak to women. If men sat by themselves and waited for women to speak to them, then women would never speak to them.

How often do you see women making threads on mumsnet saying "no one ever approaches me" or "only horrible men approach me"? You will see that from time to time. On the other hand, how often do you see threads saying "my approaches never go well" or "i always seem to approach the wrong people"? The answer is never.

If the social norm was for women to approach men (which make a hundred times more sense from a social standpoint), then these awkward interactions with men approaching women would be a thing of the past.

@SweetFemaleAttitude

Maybe the men YOU know are like this. But men I know of this age wouldn't dream of doing shit like this.

Awwwww it's so sweet that you actually believe this. 😂

I live for hilarious and deluded remarks like this on this type of thread. 😆 MANY men do this. Strike up conversations with random lone women. From bars, restaurants, and theatres, to queues in Tesco, trains, and bus stops. Lots of men think any lone female is fair game to be hit on, or listen to their drivel about their life, their job, their divorce, or their fucking hernia operation!

You're 50 shades of utterly deluded if you think any different. Your own husband very likely does it, and also your dad, your brothers, your brothers-in-law, your uncles, your male cousins, your male work colleagues, and if they're adults, your sons too.

I am just turned 60, and whilst I don't get hit on much (except occasionally by men 70+) I do get random men around my age cornering me to chat, not letting me get a word in edgeways, and they often start telling me all about their health issues. The amount of time they've been waiting on the NHS list for their varicose veins operation, the fact they have been given beta blockers, oh - and they think they need new glasses. They're on the list for laser surgery too. AND they need 2 dental crowns, but they can't get into the dentist for 3 months because they're so busy.

Why they think some random woman gives a flying fuck about the health issues of a man they don't know just eludes me. Any attempt by me to change the subject (or say anything about myself) is ignored, as they just want to talk about themselves. If it's not their health they want to bang on about, it's the big cruise they've just been on, or the new Jaguar they've just bought themselves, or the new £10,000 kitchen they've just had put in their big 6 bedroom detached house. They generally CBA to listen to anything I've got to say.

It's not polite to invite yourself onto someone else's table

It's not polite to keep talking when the OP turned her back to him and made it clear she wasn't interested in communicating

It's not polite to continue to intrude by insisting she get up and dance.

It's irritating and rude

😂 I hope and pray this is a joke post! 😆

Completely agree.

But OP told him she was married so...

No the comments are absolutely not sociopathic. I have had far too many incidents in my lifetime, of random men feeling entitled to my time and attention and corralling me into unwelcome conversations, to be anything but cynical now. Happy to chat to anyone in public places if inclined, but I follow my gut feeling when something is 'off' and I don't care if I seem rude.

The idea that he was being 'chivalrous' makes me scoff as well. IME chivalry is often paper thin and some of these men can get very angry once you make it clear you are not interested and are not going to say and do what they want you too. Because there is absolutely no genuine respect for women underpinning that 'chivalry'.

One of the wonderful things about being older is being mostly ignored by these types now and being (hooray!) invisible.

Very ageist statement.Not all men of that age are like that.Junior boomers and brought up as feminists.You will find men of all ages behaving like that.

Exactly @Zow and I find it even more annoying when it happens now as I am in my 50s and surely at the stage where I can have a conversation with someone without it descending into a sexual come on. Due to my age and average level of attractiveness I can only assume it's because they try it on with everyone that they can.

It's difficult because it makes me wary of making conversation with a man if I happen to be on my own, and as I say mid 50s I thought I would be beyond worrying about that - although I am much better at spotting the signals and closing it down very quickly- and the majority of men are not like this.

That's it. The vitriol has come out in some posters posts (incl mine) because the majority of women are just sick to the back teeth of men thinking they can just do what the fuck they want, hit on any woman they like, and that women should stop anything they're doing, and talk to them. Also, many men think that women owe them their attention and a conversation, along with deep gratitude if a MAN shows them a teeny tiny fraction of attention!

I don't want the attention of men, (particularly men I don't know,) I don't need it, and I hate it. I often pretend I am speaking to someone on my phone when I am out for a walk and I see a man approaching in the distance, so I don't have to be talked at by him for 10 minutes.

What's odd about it? I often go to things on my own.

rookiemere · Today 11:15

Yes yes OP it was your VIP seat, not you. Don't flatter yourself that this much older man chuntering on about his saddo divorce is trying it on with you. He just wants a comfier seat to watch an Abba tribute band.

Seriously were some of you born in a cabbage patch, that you can't recognise the oldest chat up approach in the book.

This made me titter.

And yes the man old enough to be the OP's dad, in his head is still 39, and actually thought the attractive younger woman would fall for his patter.

LMFAO! 😆

To have the confidence of a mediocre man would be a wonderful thing. This man was self-centred and ignorant. I doubt he was saving you from being alone. He may have convinced himself he was doing you a favour with his unsparkling company.

Good for you for telling him to take his drink back to his own table.

Going out alone is not strange. I go out when I'm working away, for the dinner and occasionally to the cinema. I take a Kindle out with me when I go for dinner, mostly to deter other people. I leave by a reasonable time because drunk men can be bothersome. I am a very ordinary, middle aged woman.

A lot of women in my company, including colleagues in very senior roles, have sandwiches or room service because they do not feel safe going out to dinner alone.

Thank you @shuggles for illustrating beautifully what me and many other posters were getting at. And proving us right. The nosey intrusive pushy MAN sat with the OP, because he intending on hitting on her. If it was just a case of 'a human talking to another human,' (as a poster said last night!) he would have sat down with the lone MAN who was near the OP.

But he didn't DID he? He sat next to a woman who he suspected would be more compliant and weak, and who he could hopefully get to shag later.

How wrong he was!

Deleted because I can’t read!

Bizarre, isn't it?

I can't tell if it's genuine naivety or internalised misogyny prompting them to make excuses for the 'poor man'.

OP you handled it well and YANBU to be pissed off. I'm so tired of this shit too.