Random stranger sat on my table at a dinner and tribute act show

Well, if we take the OPs situation as a case study...
Given he was old enough to be her father, his default position really should have been to think its highly unlikely she and I are likely to be a&b as this young woman is unlikely to be interested in me the way I am in her. So I should really leave her alone.
However on the off chance she is one of the, I think, less than 1% of women interested in a man my age, at her age, I will proceed with utmost caution.
If I strike up conversation I will not make assumptions that I am fascinating. I will pause now and again in my monologue to see if she takes up the conversation or prolongs it by asking me a question. If she doesn't I will wish her a good evening and be on my way. That way we are both free to pursue the respective a to our b elsewhere, or to enjoy our evenings by ourselves if that is our preference.

@HolidayAtNight I haven't had a relationship, but I would definitely say that 6 months or a year is casual and not formal. How can you know anyone well after only a year?

Also, you are categorically wrong that a man won't commit to a relationship with a woman he doesn't value as a person.

Of course that's true. If a woman wanted to commit to me in a formal relationship, I would feel extremely, intensely uncomfortable about that unless I really liked the person. Almost all other men would feel the same way. It's only a small minority of men who would do otherwise.

So this thread is mainly men talking to men. Funny place.

Well the OP is married, so if she was wearing a wedding ring then this would be an obvious sign that she's probably not looking to meet anyone that night.

One the initial conversation has started, it's quite easy to judge someone's body language and lack of eye contact as a sign that they are not interested in continuing the conversation further. I would have looked bored out of my brain listening about a stranger's divorce.

I mean of course: most normal women are happy to talk to men (on our terms, with the assumption of mutual respect).

@shuggles "So then after dating, or potentially having sex 6 months or a year down the line, if the man is not interested, then he will break off the relationship."

You said a relationship! 6 months to a year is not casual dating. Also, you are categorically wrong that a man won't commit to a relationship with a woman he doesn't value as a person.

No neither of these is true. I am old enough to remember the 1970s when men pestering & even assaulting women was regarded as a joke. The reason this has declined is that it has become less acceptable to approach and pester unwilling women, largely due to women themselves saying it is unacceptable. And certain people (most of them men) don't like that.

Most normal men me included are happy to talk to men and believe it or not do it all the time. I don't like the insinuation that 'women these days' are a problem because they don't want to talk to men on the men's terms only, at any time or place and for as long as men want.

@HolidayAtNight What?! Is this serious? You think investing emotionally in a relationship and then finding out they never liked you that much but were willing to sleep with you and put up with you for a while is no big deal? This post is so out of touch with the reality of human experience that I genuinely don't know what to say.

You don't become emotionally attached to someone before the relationship is formalised.

A man who isn't interested will not make the relationship "official" as such. He will go on dates and possibly have sex if asked, but he won't commit to a relationship.

You shouldn't be upset in this scenario because you will have just been on a few dates with this person for a while. You won't have become emotionally attached to a relationship that isn't official as such.

Oh goody, a man has decided to weigh in and tell us repeatedly how unreasonable we are for having boundaries. Or for feeling discomfort in the presence of random older men hitting on us.

@shuggles You're not listening, you don't get it, and it's clear from your posts here that you don't want to.

You're a perfect example of the problem that so many women on this thread have highlighted.

Exactly! Merely a year, your self-esteem, your ability to trust... no biggie! Just approach a new guy at the next ABBA night and you're golden.

Women, amirite?!

(This is sarcastic, for anyone joining the thread late.)

@rookiemere our priest said a few weeks ago that 95% of the couples he marries now have met online

What?! Is this serious? You think investing emotionally in a relationship and then finding out they never liked you that much but were willing to sleep with you and put up with you for a while is no big deal? This post is so out of touch with the reality of human experience that I genuinely don't know what to say.

It's sad that we need clear responses to each and every interaction, that we never wanted in the first place.

There are times and places to have conversations with others, like as alluded to a speed dating or just plain ordinary dating event. Plus other places and times.

I detest the idea that I'm supposed to entertain a full grown adult in these situations. It's not my unpaid job to listen to you talk about anything, I'm not your bloody therapist. Stop being cheap and go find and pay a therapist to talk to.

I was once phoned by a friends husband, he asked me to invite his wife over to mine, he actually said "so you can have a womens natter" I was fucking livid. I gave him both barrels. He never asked me again and I never had his wife over again. Fuck that, I'm not an adult babysitting service.

@HolidayAtNight That's a bit naive. Lots of men will sleep with women they don't actually like as people.

Sure. So then after dating, or potentially having sex 6 months or a year down the line, if the man is not interested, then he will break off the relationship. So you dated a man, and you discovered the man is not interested. So you haven't lost anything and you can try dating a different man instead. I don't understand what the issue is.

@Livingtothefull you mentioned upthread that you had approached women, that it had not gone well and that you hated yourself for doing it. Presume that you are a man then which may account for why you are not understanding the woman's perspective on this?

I don't agree that I don't understand women's perspectives. I have listened to women's perspectives on being approached by men. I fully understand and accept that women do not like to be approached in public places, in bars, or in nightclubs, and it is not something that I would ever do again (I would say a majority of men do continue to approach women, even though it is clearly not socially acceptable).

The issue though is that there is no evidence to suggest that women approaching men is more dangerous or hazardous than the reverse scenario. Because quite clearly, women not approaching men has not stopped a minority of men from choosing to harm women anyway.

You seem really resentful of the fact that men are socially pressured to approach women, and that women somehow owe it to men to take the pressure off them by doing the approaching themselves.

You are looking at this the wrong way. It's not about one gender having to "do work" that the other gender has to do. I am saying that if men didn't have to approach women, then there would be more harmony between the genders, which would be a good thing.

Btw there is nothing wrong with people getting together at work and they do it all the time

Absolutely not. First of all, there is the risk of harming working relationships if one person reads the situation wrongly. Second, productivity and output will be harmed if employees are thinking about having relationships with each other rather than working. Third, if the relationship doesn't work out, then again, working relationships are harmed.

Workplace relationships are a completely bonkers idea and I'm not sure where you are getting this strange idea from that it's a positive thing.

That's a bit naive. Lots of men will sleep with women they don't actually like as people. There are fundamental differences in assessing the opposite sex for men and women. How much we have to try to mitigate the risk to our physical safety is the obvious difference, but figuring out whether you're really seen as a full person rather than an object is a really hard one to explain to men. Growing up under the male gaze sucks. I've seen men argue with women that women don't have genuine inner lives, as an extreme example.

Yeah, that's the point - if they will already approach the women they think those things about, how much worse will they be to ones who have "confirmed" it by approaching them in public?

Stop exaggerating.

This was a concert. Why would random 60 plus bloke think a 40 year old woman wants to be bothered being chatted up by him.

Warmfeet · Today 00:49its quite an odd thing to go to on your own though, so probably thought you'd been stood up and felt sorry for you.

Did you reach adulthood pre WWII ? And have been stuck in a time - warp ever since?

At a standing concert in London for a somewhat obscure, but with somewhat cult following, singer songwriter I was on my own. During the interval between the support act and the main act a man standing next to me, also on his own, started a conversation about the musician. We discussed the support act and the main act's new album. At no point did he ask me why I was on my own, or could he keep me company or buy me a drink. Conversation ended when main act started.

Perfectly pleasant conversation. And completely different from OP's experience.

@Livingtothefull are you young or have you lived a sheltered life? In pubs and bars of basically any time pre 2000ish, men approached women as that is how many people found a mate. We weren't offended as that is how it was. Not everyone had a friend of a friend or workmates to "set you up". But for some reason women these days seem disgusted that a man would ever speak to them.

@shuggles you mentioned upthread that you had approached women, that it had not gone well and that you hated yourself for doing it. Presume that you are a man then which may account for why you are not understanding the woman's perspective on this? I'm afraid a lot of men - even intelligent ones including family & friends - seem unable to understand why this is such an issue for women, based as it is on concerns about their own personal safety. Sometimes when I discuss it with them I see them getting defensive about it and even detect a glimmer of anger. And these are men I love and am close to.

You seem really resentful of the fact that men are socially pressured to approach women, and that women somehow owe it to men to take the pressure off them by doing the approaching themselves. To my cynical self: just one more example of male entitlement and irrational anger at women I'm afraid.

Again, bitter experience talking; once upon a time when I was really young I was open and friendly and would talk to anyone. Countless experiences of male persistence turning to disrespect, resentment, anger and aggression have long knocked (occasionally, literally knocked) me out of that.

Btw there is nothing wrong with people getting together at work and they do it all the time, COVID made this difficult but most workplaces are at least part time office based. As long as appropriate rules are followed - keep the relationship outside the workplace, don't hit on subordinates etc - that is absolutely fine. Online dating is there too and the benefit of that is that the women can set parameters around that to keep herself safe. So lots of options for people with sensitivity, good social skills and respect for others.

Exactly. On point.

Nobody has said that. Get a grip yourself.

Don't be daft. He was trying his luck. I'm long enough in the tooth to know men's tactics. He was there with a group of his own friends and therefore was not lonely or desperate for company. This wasn't a brief, friendly/polite exhange with the OP whilst buying drinks at the bar. The man plonked himself firmly down at the table of a woman 20 years his junior in an area he hadn't even paid for the privilege to be in. There was a single bloke on the table next to the OP so why then didn't he choose to sit there and exercise such all important social interaction with him? What part of this aren't you getting.