Prison life choice?

Hopefully the appointment of James Timpson will help

Errrm no. As I already said the post was not political and I was not blaming the current government. The point was the current rush of prisoners coming out on September 10th if they have reached the 40% mark and the community probation reset that means short sentence prisoners will not even see their probation officers in person. That has been brought in very suddenly and probation staff are really struggling to make duty to refers for a number of services. That’s a fact.

The Labour government have had to do that because of Tory policy. I didn’t think it was necessary to point this out as my post was about trying to explain the lack of ability for ‘the system’ to do much with a man stuck in the revolving door of the criminal justice system.

But don’t let your inability to read the thread stop you frothing and let your own partisan views and anger stop you from making a sarcastic little rant hey?

The system is utterly screwed. The total lack of link up with mental health support IS the problem. The length of time to get support even when you are classified as 'in crisis' is criminal. (Yes deliberate choice of wording there).

And even then it's a box ticking thing where if you don't fit quite right you fall through the cracks very easily.

Quite simply it's not fit for purpose.

The number of people in prison with learning difficulties, ADHD and mental health problems is far higher than the general population.

To then turn around and say 'well they are making choices' fundamentally fails to understand the additional problems that these issues create - particularly in even accessing support, nevermind keeping up with support long term.

Everything is weighted against people in this situation and geared up to the needs of people who don't have these kind of barriers.

My own experience has spelt this out.

There are a few podcasts which I'd suggest you listen to to try to understand a bit more. I think that would really help you to understand a bit more and begin to find ways to help. Life After Prison, a Bit of a Stretch and The Secret Life of Prisons.

spot on

@Hceey thank you for caring so much for your nephew. In your position I would look for employers who take on offenders and look into counselling for him to help him not re offend. I know quite a lot of ex prisoners, all drug related though. All on the straight and narrow now. I hope your nephew appreciates your help.

You are right that the support network is at best patchy and at worst just about non - existent. That is certainly my experience in recent years.

I'm saying this kindly but I think you do need to find answers to some of the questions that others have raised. I've never worked with an ex offender who hasn't had significant trauma in his childhood (loss of parent, family breakdown, major accident , care system ....) and almost everyone I have worked with has a drug or alcohol problem and/or mental health problems of varying severity. And I've worked with dozens of people. Some sort of treatment plan is probably going to be needed.

If he has been street homeless there 100% is addiction/ mental health and violence.
They are on the street because they can’t be housed in normal temporary accommodation due to eviction for the above or they have chosen to leave due to mental health.
Sorry- I work in this field and it is the reality.
also/ sustained employment straight out of prison after years of offending and criminality is a pipe dream.

Why aren't his own parents offering him a roof and support?

Agreed
Many yrs ago I knew some homeless men who felt safe and secure in Jail.
They said all their friends were there, they were fed, and looked after.
I was a teenager at the time, these were middle aged men, obviously their childhoods were less than stellar.

Jails back then were much better funded though.
Far less crowded.

Your nephew's social circle will be criminal ... sorry to say, but whatever things beyond his control got him to this point, this will be true. Do you want your household associated with this or sucked into it?
I know you think all will be well and your motives are positive, but the realities of the sort of criminal network he will be involved with are not something you want to be a part of your life.
He may have started out relatively innocently after stealing to eat, but the fact that he is repeatedly imprisoned means he will have been exposed to networks that you do not want anywhere near your home. And it also means that his crimes are unlikely to be trivial. There will be more to this than falling on hard times and needing food.
Criminals are good at demanding money under threats... he may be stealing to order for a drug ring ... he would not be going to prison for stealing a sandwich to assuage his hunger.
I have something similar in my family and really understand the evil networks that lie behind this sort of life. We all want to help but are doing so in ways that do not put us or our children at any risk ... we have to stand back and analyse what we can safely do. I know this sounds hard hearted and goes against the impulse to help, but life is harsh and we cannot be blind to that. You must open your eyes too.
The absence of properly funded prevention and support services is a disgrace and it is tragic that people like your nephew have been impacted by this; but you must factor in self preservation for you and your family.
You do not want his criminal associates knowing where you live.

What you’ve just said is quite right@Hceey Its easy for people to be righteous without having experienced or seen close up how the system actually works.

The vast majority of people in prison have suffered trauma, mental heath problems, and addictions resulting from these. It’s very sad.

I think you’re going a lovely thing trying to help him, and you seem well aware of the potential problems.

Also, my ex's brother used to get jobs on building sites.
At one point he was doing well, but then one stupid weekend bender and everything went pear shaped again, but that's him.

Maybe a building site job would work for your DN.

My daughter worked in Belmarsh (cat A) and Thameside (cat B). She says that those in Thameside, who were on 'good behaviour' enjoyed a decent lifestyle. She read letters to inmates from other offenders saying 'it's a holiday camp there'. Meals, TV, PlayStation, their own clothes. Cigs and drugs. They smoke tea bags! Many are repeat offenders. Prison life seems to be the best option for some poor souls. Sad isn't it.

By the sounds of it, you haven't actually had a conversation with him so how do you presume to know what he wants?

So he lives on your sofa, for how long? You already said its not a permanent solution.

He needs an address so he'll need a job to save up for rent. Moving costs, deposit and first month's rent, let's say that £2000.

So how long would it take to save £2000 whilst working and having every day living costs?

Let's be honest, his choice of job is already limited because has a criminal record and one that's for theft. Who is going to trust a thief? And especially one that 'bottled a customer'! Sorry, but it's not exactly screaming employ me is it?

You best bet would be to secure him a place in a shelter/halfway house and try to find him a job so that he start to support himself but some people like this are beyond help as sad as it sounds. My ex's brother is always in and out of prison because he's an idiot who just never learns to keep out trouble and seems to think his little group of mates will help him but they seem to lead him straight back to a cell.

Perhaps you shouldn't have introduced a totally gratuitous and unfounded political dig, then.

Who else lives with you OP, and how would they feel about having a repeat offender in their home? Theft and violence would be too big an ask for me to have my nephew on my sofa, which I assume means someone else lives with you, or are you in a one bedroom place?

The prison and probation service are on their knees especially since Starmer introduced people only serving 40% of their sentence in custody.

Why the totally gratuitous reference to Starmer? It is because the prison service was on its knees after 14 years of underfunding that he was forced to bring in early release for some prisoners. Sunak admitted before the election that this was inevitable.

@horsesduvets yes, I'm blaming the crap system. Because it is crap. Also the job centre have been in the news for years for throwing people off. They are shite. When I was young the centre helped you and had jobs on a board. What do they do now? Nothing, waste of money.

Does he even engage with the 'system'??

I'm thinking he probably doesn't.

I don't understand why the OP is so cagey about his parents' role.

Yes this!

Also no mention that Starmer has appointed James Timpson in to a prisons role - a man who has many, many years of helping offenders back into work - an outstanding appointment he made on DAY ONE.

Haven’t read all the posts but you are being very naive.
You need to take a step back- identify what the issues are and work out a plan- but also be realistic that your plan may not be his.
For example:
Issues:
poor mental health, possibly unresolved trauma, even a mental illness such as personality disorder.
addictions
few or no qualifications
Issues with literacy/ numeracy
possible adhd (many prisoners have it and can be explanation for impulsive behaviour)
lack of suitable housing when leaves prison
no positive friendship group. Socially excluded
financially excluded- not accessing the benefits system.

actions:
Get him home to you and not a hostel
Get on housing list as homesless from home and request one bed flat. May be a wait but possibly ways to get his points up or look at private let’s.
Get benefits sorted so accessing UC.
GP appointment to discuss his health issues (which he 99% has) and a pathway to resolve these
Forget employment until the above is sorted as he won’t sustain it and supported options needed initially.
Look at ways he can improve well being and form positive friendships in local area. May not even be at stage for volunteering- might be something like going to the gym.

What are his parents' thoughts on all this?

If you want to help him why don't you reach out to the probation officer? They would have to approve and risk assess any address he put forward while on licence anyway. Please be wary you sound very naive.

I used to be a PO many moons ago and we had a housing scheme for 84 nights on release for cases who didn't meet criteria for an approved premises, good homelessness provision locally and you've got Reconnect health services so they come out with a scripting appointment. Family would call up and say the system had let him down, the system had provided him with accommodation on multiple occasions, drug and alcohol support, we even had immediate access counselling provision, education training and employment so people could do courses, get good jobs in things like railway track maintenance which was plentiful and pretty well paid, we had peer mentors, people who had lived experience that cases might be able to relate to more and would accompany them to appointments with other agencies etc, plus the accredited programme and offending behaviour work. A good proportion continued to repeatedly offend and sometimes you'd get to a position where they had burned every bridge with every service going because they'd been aggressive or threatening or violent to staff. If someone isn't high risk it's very unlikely they'd be recalled for a missed appointment, people are given chances.

I also think it's highly unlikely that he's repeatedly Street homeless, has a lot of acquisitive offences that you know about and doesn't have any problems with drink or drugs, I'm not blaming him Christ if I was street homeless I'd want something to take the edge off, but you need to know what you're dealing with.
You also sound very casual about the fact that he bottled someone and not even while drunk in a pub fight, where you might say there were disinhibitors to his decision making, it was while at work in a supermarket....

Some prisons have good provision, lots especially the state owned indeed don't and have long periods of bang up, but that's not the end of the story. Speak to his PO and say you want to support him, they won't be able to share much with you initially and you will need his consent. Do you have children? If so your address isn't likely to be approved