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AIBU?

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Prison life choice?

190 replies

Hceey · 17/08/2024 19:42

I don't understand my DN. He is in prison and has been in and out for years on short sentences.

He comes out, lives in a homeless group for a bit, robs food and drink. No drugs to what I know to. He then goes back in prison at some point.

The whole thing is fucking ridiculous and I want to help him. But, I don't understand him and his way of thinking. The support from the system is not there. Yes, I don't know the full facts, I admit.

He comes out and does the same thing over and over. He has no support, they send him out and what? I don't understand how the system is meant to work?

He will be out soon with nothing, no home and no job. I think they give him some cash, but that's it.

I can offer him a sofa, but not long term. I cannot afford to support him though and so he will go back to robbing.

I feel useless.

AIBU to feel the system is shite?

I'm posting because I'm hoping to hear from someone who knows or been through this. Realistically, how hopeful is it he will ever get a job with his past?

Is his future really gonna be prison then retirement?

OP posts:
Schoolchoicesucks · 18/08/2024 10:32

OlympicProcrastinator · 17/08/2024 22:11

Erm I didn’t. This wasn’t a political post. I was simply pointing out that both the prison and the probation service have less time than ever to work with prisoners and very soon, most short sentence prisoners such as the man OP is discussing will be out at the 40% mark, being handed over to a probation service that is only seeing high risk offenders for weekly supervision. That has just been brought in. By the new government. Thats the facts.
How exactly is stating a fact ‘blaming the new government’?
The point I was trying to make is that the OP says the ‘system’ should see to his ‘basic needs’. What basic needs does she think HMPPS can provide when people who commit crime will be in less contact with the criminal justice system than ever.

Whose ‘fault’ that is was not discussed by me at all.

You did refer to "Starmer's 40%" in your post. The OP's nephew has been in and out of prison - his situation is not a new thing, his contacts with prison and probation services previously have been under the previous government.

I absolutely agree that stretched prison and probation services are not going to be able to provide useful and meaningful rehabilitation for minor repeat offenders.

If you didn't intend to make a political point, then there was no need to refer to a new initiative and name the new PM. The underfunding and ineffective services and failures under many previous administrations would have delivered your point perfectly well.

zingally · 18/08/2024 10:11

Sadly, I think this is all too often the case. In prison they are warm, given clean clothes, able to wash themselves, and given 3 square meals a day. The day is structured and routine.
Those without support on the outside often don't have those things, and live very chaotic lives. Prison is seen as a reasonable alternative, and often a better quality of life than they'd have outside.

TiredArse · 18/08/2024 10:01

RedToothBrush · 18/08/2024 09:32

Have you been to one of these job centre appointments?

I accompanied someone once.

It shocked me.

Utterly appalling it was. Unrealistic and appalling. No humanity whatsoever.

This was a non-english speaker. They were referred to English lessons without any thought or consideration to the level of English being taught.

It was frankly, brain-dead in terms of logic or helpfulness.

I know someone who teaches ESOL. When people first start they receive an assessment and are then assigned to the right level of course. At our local adult Ed centre they offer clases from every level (including people who can’t read or write in any language and can’t speak a single word of English). I’d hope/expect that would be the same everywhere.

TiredArse · 18/08/2024 09:54

If he’s stealing food and drink he’s almost certainly an addict. He’ll have his housing paid and be claiming uc. Most hostels also provide at least some meals. So if he doesn’t have money for food it’s very likely going on either drink or drugs. Or he’s stealing higher value items (steak, booze etc) to resell for drug money. Sorry OP, there should be better support both in and outside of prison but ultimately you can’t change him, he needs to want to change.

MintyNew · 18/08/2024 09:53

Why would you invite trouble into your home? I hope you don't have kids

Createausername1970 · 18/08/2024 09:46

If you are willing to give him a roof over his head, and are happy you personally will be safe, then do it.

He will find it easier to get universal credit with an address, I think. Plus they expect claimants to do a lot on-line, so if you can help him set up his UC account on your phone or laptop then that would be useful too. You might have to help him set him up an email address too.

So much of life today requires on-line interaction, and if someone is mainly homeless, I can understand how this creates a vicious circle.

If he struggles to get employment, maybe he could register as self employed. He doesn't need to have a specific trade, just be willing to do whatever presents itself. A couple of days labouring here and there, clearing gardens etc.

Once he is in receipt of UC, he could get a cheap laptop or phone and check Indeed and other local job sites regularly.

All is not lost. If his has someone like yourself willing to give him the basics AND has a desire to sort himself out, then it could all work out eventually - although he could be with you for a bit longer than you anticipate.

KerChingo · 18/08/2024 09:42

He likes prison and sees his mates there who all do the same things as him. It is like a home from home which some men like.

He has to want to change or he won't change will he? Nothing you can do about it I'm afraid

OlympicProcrastinator · 18/08/2024 09:39

InsensibleMe · 18/08/2024 09:34

Yup, all Starmer’s fault. I blame him for most of the ills in todays society frankly.

RTFT.

InsensibleMe · 18/08/2024 09:34

OlympicProcrastinator · 17/08/2024 20:03

When you say ‘the system’ what exactly do you mean? The prison and probation service are on their knees especially since Starmer introduced people only serving 40% of their sentence in custody. They cannot force him to abide by the law.

He won’t be able to get a job easily with all those convictions. And there is no housing.

People have to WANT to change. They need motivation or the ‘system’ can’t help. And prisons cannot people in for longer than their sentence even if it’s obvious they will reoffend.

Yup, all Starmer’s fault. I blame him for most of the ills in todays society frankly.

RedToothBrush · 18/08/2024 09:32

ThreeFeetTall · 18/08/2024 09:10

@Hceey in terms of benefits he should be entitled to UC which is about £380 pcm, I suggest if you are able you attend his first job centre appointment where the claimant commitment is discussed and argue (politely!) for some more relaxed rules if you do not think he will be able to look for and evidence 35 hours of job search. This is maybe what he said he 'failed' at last time. He needs to regularly check his online claim, maybe this is something you could help with too.

His local council may be able to help with deposit and first months rent in advance if he is thinking of private rent (and then UC will pay for a certain amount of rent) but tbh this might be hard to find. Maybe best to support him living at the homeless hostel.

Have you been to one of these job centre appointments?

I accompanied someone once.

It shocked me.

Utterly appalling it was. Unrealistic and appalling. No humanity whatsoever.

This was a non-english speaker. They were referred to English lessons without any thought or consideration to the level of English being taught.

It was frankly, brain-dead in terms of logic or helpfulness.

SoManyBadgers · 18/08/2024 09:19

I would bet my house that he does have past trauma from his childhood, and this is probably connected to why OP isn't telling us about his parents and why she feels she has to step into their shoes and help him. He needs therapy and to confront and process whatever has happened to him. He probably has ADHD and if so would benefit from learning coping strategies and something like going to the gym or a sport.

It's lovely that you want to help him OP.

OlympicProcrastinator · 18/08/2024 09:18

CaptainBolt · 18/08/2024 09:12

😂 It was super effective and efficient until Starmer got in. 😏

No it was shit as I’ve said twice now in subsequent posts. His hand was forced. The point is the early release scheme, brought in around the same time as the probation reset came directly before the SDS40 scheme and probation staff, already working massively over capacity and understaffed are seriously struggling to get release planning in place.

OlympicProcrastinator · 18/08/2024 09:13

OP he will have a home detention curfew date and you can offer him your home. If he puts your address forward community probation will check it out and he can stay. If that hasn’t happened he is not putting your address forward or there is something else he is not telling you. There are places referred to as Cas2 and Cas3 housing for prisoners coming out without a place to go. They are overstretched but some prisons still have very good resettlement teams. It is area dependent though.

In terms of housing and money he can present himself as homeless to the council and get emergency accommodation and receive money. Of these things are not happening there may be other things going on you are unaware of. Not everybody is ready to change.

CaptainBolt · 18/08/2024 09:12

NoLongerNHS · 17/08/2024 20:18

especially since Starmer introduced people only serving 40% of their sentence in custody.

Oh that is why the system is on its knees? Not 14 years of systematic starvation of funding and a confused philosophy about whether the aim of the system is rehabilitation or punishment.

😂 It was super effective and efficient until Starmer got in. 😏

NoMoreLifts · 18/08/2024 09:12

Emmaus offer a community based live-work situation. It is 'dry', I think. There is one near me and it's a great resource lively for recycled furniture etc., they do good work which must help with positivity.

emmaus.org.uk/get-help/

anyolddinosaur · 18/08/2024 09:10

Sorry but you are naive. Just read your posts so I'm probably duplicating. The systems to help may be poor but they do exist and he will have been offered help before it got to this stage. If he has no accommodation he probably has a drink or drugs problem so wouldnt stay in what was offered. There are limits on what any system can do for someone who cant change themself.

You can claim benefits when homeless. If you give him a sofa make sure he claims. https://www.akt.org.uk/resources/claiming-benefits-while-homeless/ He can get a referral to a food bank. He can look for potwashing, cleaning or labouring jobs or sell the Big Issue He will probably still steal and may steal from you. He is likely to go back to prison because he obviously struggles to cope outside. Maybe with your support he can turn a corner but the chances are you will end up considerably poorer and he wont change.

ThreeFeetTall · 18/08/2024 09:10

@Hceey in terms of benefits he should be entitled to UC which is about £380 pcm, I suggest if you are able you attend his first job centre appointment where the claimant commitment is discussed and argue (politely!) for some more relaxed rules if you do not think he will be able to look for and evidence 35 hours of job search. This is maybe what he said he 'failed' at last time. He needs to regularly check his online claim, maybe this is something you could help with too.

His local council may be able to help with deposit and first months rent in advance if he is thinking of private rent (and then UC will pay for a certain amount of rent) but tbh this might be hard to find. Maybe best to support him living at the homeless hostel.

MrsCat1 · 18/08/2024 09:06

Another provider of useful services is the Salvation Army. In some areas they offer support to find work and they also can provide lunches etc and social clubs. Worth taking a look.

oakleaffy · 18/08/2024 08:58

Somepeoplearesnippy · 18/08/2024 08:55

I did an internship counselling in a prison when doing my MSc in psychotherapy. A lot of people see prison as the only place where they can be safe, secure and free of responsibility. As one said to me 'I love it in here Miss, I get my own bed, three meals a day and no one can lay a hand on me'. She was serving a relatively short sentence that time but she will have been back inside within days. She (and many others) can't cope in the real world.

Agreed!
Paternal prison makes some feel very safe.

Janedoe82 · 18/08/2024 08:58

Somepeoplearesnippy · 18/08/2024 08:55

I did an internship counselling in a prison when doing my MSc in psychotherapy. A lot of people see prison as the only place where they can be safe, secure and free of responsibility. As one said to me 'I love it in here Miss, I get my own bed, three meals a day and no one can lay a hand on me'. She was serving a relatively short sentence that time but she will have been back inside within days. She (and many others) can't cope in the real world.

Yes- I have seen this happen in the run up to Christmas. Young men deliberately offending to get back in for Christmas as they will be warm and fed. Some people just have unbelievably shitty lives.

Baguettesandcheeseforever · 18/08/2024 08:57

It is so complicated. A large amount of prisoners are undiagnosed neurodivergent people (I am not saying neurodivergent people are all criminals but studies have shown that at least 40% of the male prison population are undiagnosed). Also a lot of prisoners have complicated histories with the vast majority having had traumatic early childhoods which have impacted their lives/development/behaviour which has impacted the route their lives have taken. Then there’s social influence added to the mix…throw in poverty, addiction issues…and many other social/political/economic factors and the fact that there can be any combination of the above it really is complicated.
Then add the fact that this behaviour can become habit, there’s no support to break the cycle. Prisoners can also become institutionalised and actually feel like they don’t know how to function in the outside world and so they reoffend with the intention of being sent back as it is familiar and is all they know.
There are charities that specialise in helping prisoners and people with convictions to break the cycle but they are small and limited in what they can do.
There are also charities that specialise in finding jobs for people with convictions and then supporting the employer and the new employee in retaining this job. The reoffending rate drops significantly if a person manages to hold down a job past 6months.
Also there are companies that specifically support and encourage people with convictions. Try Greggs, Green King pubs, Timpsons, Iceland to name a few. There is help out there but it is hard. I think here in the midlands more is happening to try and reduce reoffending rates but it is a slow process.

Somepeoplearesnippy · 18/08/2024 08:55

I did an internship counselling in a prison when doing my MSc in psychotherapy. A lot of people see prison as the only place where they can be safe, secure and free of responsibility. As one said to me 'I love it in here Miss, I get my own bed, three meals a day and no one can lay a hand on me'. She was serving a relatively short sentence that time but she will have been back inside within days. She (and many others) can't cope in the real world.

MickyShell · 18/08/2024 08:55

Ponderingwindow · 18/08/2024 00:19

If you really want to help, don’t just try to reach out to him when he is out of prison. Recidivism rates are lower for prisoners who maintain relationships with friends and family.

You don’t know what is going on with him, so I suspect you haven’t been communicating with him regularly. Why not start with a letter or an email, whichever his facility uses. Don’t send him money, don’t be overly personal or invasive, just be willing to talk. Over time, you may be able to find ways to encourage him to help himself or for you to help connect him with services.

This. Or even visit him. Get to know him and see if you can form a trusting relationship. Then you will understand how best to support him or maybe decide that you don't wish to support him after all. But there is a chance you could be the person who helps him turn his life into something much more positive.

oakleaffy · 18/08/2024 08:54

@Hceey What you are trying to do is admirable- but I do know a man who tried to help someone in a not dissimilar way.
It all went well- Til it didn’t.

He said he regretted trying to help the chap ( who presented very well)
Sometimes the drivers to carry on unwise choices is just too much.

Sounds like your DN drinks
He’s likely to steal from you, and bring his dodgy mates round.

You can’t make him change.

Only he can decide that.

Some people do change!

A heroin addicted person in and out of jail got a job at nights cleaning operating theatres in hospitals - they had a Methadone script.

The person stuck at this for many years, and got a pension from it.

But they had decided this themselves.

oakleaffy · 18/08/2024 08:54

@Hceey What you are trying to do is admirable- but I do know a man who tried to help someone in a not dissimilar way.
It all went well- Til it didn’t.

He said he regretted trying to help the chap ( who presented very well)
Sometimes the drivers to carry on unwise choices is just too much.

Sounds like your DN drinks
He’s likely to steal from you, and bring his dodgy mates round.

You can’t make him change.

Only he can decide that.

Some people do change!

A heroin addicted person got a job at nights cleaning operating theatres in hospitals - they had a Methadone script.

The person stuck at this for many years, and got a pension from it.

But they had decided this themselves.

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