Prison life choice?

@Bjorkdidit the odd few yes. Not a vast majority, nowhere near

I'm amazed at this thread and peoples perceptions of U.K. prison

You really think that? Why?

Good policies that only lock up a man who at 19 raped a 12 year old, was sentenced to 4 years over here, sent back there under agreement after one and served ONE MONTH in a Dutch prison? No thanks.

Some people's lives are so awful that prison is the lesser of two evils.

We should take a lead from the Netherlands, where they are closing prisons and converting them into housing because of good criminal justice policies

@HelloMiss thars really not the case. The vast majority are poor souls

Have you stepped foot in a prison before?

So so many people in prison are there for PUBLIC PROTECTION.

They are not all thieving lovable rogues who rob Tesco

Some seriously bad people behind those doors who need to stay there. We absolutely DO need more prisons building

@HorsesDuvets Who cares? I care as do lots of people who have an understanding of what lies behind offending behaviour. And the last thing we need is to build loads more prisons and put people away for eternity. It's hugely expensive and when they come out it's all back to square one. Pointless waste of money and lives.

Of course I believe that SOME prisoners should be locked up for a very long time but a significant proportion should not ever enter the prison system where they learn from other criminals and then come out and find their lives are impossible and the only option is re- offending.

I think people do get institutionalised. It can happen when people are in and out of psych hospital also. They never really change, they stop being frightened of the restrictions and start to find it a comfort almost.
I think as others say if he were able to move away from the area where his influences are he'd stand a chance. If it's petty crime then that is often fueled by addiction. You say no drugs.
I don't know if he'd consider counselling? Could he go to AA? Would you maybe agree to go along with him as a support?
I hope things get better. There are so many men trapped in this cycle. There should be more done to help prison leavers go 'straight' but it requires determination and willpower and guidance.

People must think Starmer has some magic wand. Amazing how he has caused so much destruction and damaged public services in a month.

Lovely story, thanks for sharing and a special 'thank you' to the guy who gave him a break on release. The world needs more of those.

Prison costs a fortune though. Over 6 billion in 22-23. It’s cheaper to have someone in an open prison but it’s still 20-30k per person per year. Costs rise massively the more secure the prison.

Im not against prison but for lots of people it’s an expensive waste of time. I do think money could be better invested in prevention.

www.statista.com/statistics/298654/united-kingdom-uk-public-sector-expenditure-prisons/

If he's locked up for 10 years that's 10 years he's not making other people's lives a misery.

If he comes back out after that and offends again he can do 15 years next time.

Like I said, we need many more prisons urgently.

For all the 'rehabilitation and reintegration' talk, the fact is that many/most offenders will carry on offending regardless of the support they receive because that's just how they are.

People will say "prison doesn't work..." but in all honesty, who cares? As long as they're locked up they're not ruining everyone else's lives, so frankly I don't care about pointless, costly rehabilitation. Just keep them off the streets.

@Hceey if you take him in and have jewellery etc of sentimental value, ask someone to mind them for you. My DD tried to help her half brother, he not only robbed her put set up the house to be burgled later on. He set up our Nephew's removal van to be stolen, because he got access to the keys, there wasn't an insurance pay out and it ended my DNs business. My stepson is institutionalised and just won't live decently. We'd have put him up, bill free with a instant job, or help via an ex offender charity. He didn't want it. I worked in Welfare rights, some people who are homeless don't want the responsibility of housing. I think many would be the vintage, differs, tramps, hawkers etc. He'd have to not contact old acquaintances. He's had available what everyone has and that's access to benefits. There is help, some cities are better on that score, but it's really important that you don't see him as a perpetual victim. Childhood is relevant because people who opt out of society have often been let down from childhood and don't see themselves as having a place in it.

Quite.

It was totally bonkers. But I just think it shows the contempt there is for providing actual support rather than ticking a box saying they've fulfilled their responsibility to provide certain services (regards of whether they are fit for purpose or not).

It was a local authority sanctioned course. Possibly by a third party but I don't know.

The demand for access was exceeding demand and we were told she was lucky to get any place at all, which made it even worse as it effectively meant it also stopped someone else being on the appropriate course.

I think this is my gripe - so many services that are there just aren't fit for purpose but those outside looking in who don't understand or have knowledge of how it works in practice have no comprehension of just how shit and inadequate these services for very vulnerable people are.

If you are vulnerable and in this position your ability to complain about just how bad these services are, isn't there. Instead you are treated with utter contempt and dehumanised as 'making poor choices'.

These are people who need advocates to fight DESPITE the system rather than the system offering adequate support. It is incredibly draining and at times we felt utterly khafkesque in terms of actively working AGAINST the interests of the person concerned. Imagine being that person in that situation - everything stacked against you - it doesn't surprise me people give up.

That’s insane. How would they expect anyone to learn like that? Was that a local authority class or a private provider?

There are lots of things that are supposed to happen but don’t.

There’s also the temptation to judge how people with chaotic lives should act, according to how you would do so yourself, as opposed to what people are able to manage

I laugh.

This is not happening everywhere.

We had to put in a complaint precisely because it was not happening.

I can see working on the Railways has been mentioned. This can be a good option but there are a few things to consider. His type of offences will not prevent a career in rail - shouldn't be a problem at all and it is a great option for people who have served time. However, he needs to be physically fit and willing to really graft. Once on the rail nobody will hold his hand or make allowances. He certainly won't be able to react aggressively if someone speaks to him in a way he doesn't like.

In order to get started his best option is to speak to his Job Coach. They should be able to signpost him to a local provider that has funding to provide Rail training for unemployed people. It's available mainly in the big urban centres. The course will anything from 3 to 8 weeks. He'll have to pass Safety Critical rail courses as well as learn how to work on the rail. It's a big commitment and he has to be willing to do it.

The biggest barrier is usually the Medical and Drug and Alcohol test that are mandatory to do the Safety Critical training. Failing the D&A results in a 5 year ban from working on the rail.

He needs a Rail sponsor to work on the rail. Lots of trianing companies promise the world and tell people they will get full time work and then leave them at the end with an ineffective sponsor who doesn't give them shifts.

So, although it's an option for him, it's not as easy as some people think.

It’s all very well bringing out the old “Turning their lives around’ chestnut. However. Let’s be real here, there are people with degrees who’ve never been in trouble a day in their lives who can’t get jobs. I can definitely understand why Prison can become a revolving door.

You say he has never been offered a place to stay on release then that means he has never gone int a CAS3 - that is surprising (assuming he has no arson related convictions or behaviour) as it is a national thing now. It may be that he has not consented to it as it is voluntary. If you do end up speaking to his PO/PSO then that could be something to ask about. If he is SDS40 surge 1 then that might be tricky but it is still work the conversation.

I think I mentioned it because it’s very sudden and on our doorstep with several hundred prisoners being released September 10th. It IS Starmers 40% no two ways about it. If I had known that would be jumped on as ‘blame’ then I would have worded it differently. It is causing a great deal of worry in probation at the moment.
I will caveat my post to say it’s come on the back of the ERS and serious cuts by SUNAK. Starmer had no choice although I do wish it was a bit more staggered because there is not the infrastructure in the community at the moment to cope.

On a brighter note the new people heading up HMPPS have actual knowledge and experience and were not appointed because they are mates as with the Tories so there is a hope for the future.

Often the revolving door re offending can be rooted in other issues. A shocking amount of adults in prison have undiagnosed ADHD for example. Just because he seems cheerful doesn't mean there are not underlying issues going on. It may well be worth looking into any potential undiagnosed issues in adulthood because if he does have a psychological issue he is masking then it could give you the understanding you need of why he does the things he does and is the way he is. There could also be things that went on in his early childhood you aren't aware of that moulded the person he grew into. If there is something going on at a deeper level that isn't being diagnosed then it might explain a lot about his thinking and logic. It's just something to consider.

Op I don't know why you are suddenly so desperate to help him? You say that you are not that close to the family as well. Your intentions are a bit dubious to be honest.
If you have known him since a baby why haven't you stepped up a long time ago?
Do you have kids - because that would be an awfully irresponsible thing to do?
If you don't, then it's you just wanting to get involved? Why?