Inheritance and care home fees

The inheritance isn't 'rightfully' anyone's until it is inherited. The person who is doing the gifting of the inheritance can choose to divert it at any time, as long as they have mental capacity. And I think the mum would be EXTREMELY wise to divert it, if the money is all going to get taken off her daughter.

It’s not giving the money to the council. It’s paying for something your wife needs, and will be able to afford.

Why should tax payers pay for those who can afford it?

Yes it’s the testator who has to make the will and show complete independence of thought. They might also want to get her capacity checked and signed off.

One little tip (my wife is a wills and probate solicitor, so I've picked quite a bit up down the years) - Your MIL should contact the solicitors herself and see them alone, solicitors are extra cautious with very elderly clients (even those who have capacity) if they have a younger person with them all the time, particularly if that person stands to benefit in some way.

This will cause the solicitor to draw the process out, in order to be quite sure there is no coercion. And I know of at least one case, where a 98 year old lady died before everything was completed - her son was always with her, so the solicitor slowed the process down - even though she instigated it.

A solicitor will help you, discretional trusts have a 10 yearly charge and exit charges, so I wouldn't be going down that road.

A well written Immediate Post Death Interest trust doesn't have such pitfalls being exempt from periodic charges and exit charges (instead they are counted as the life tenants estate for IHT, the current threshold levels would mean that would not be an issue as things stand), are very tax efficient and will safeguard the inheritance whilst giving flexibility with how you invest the funds.

Good luck! I don’t know why people are clutching their pearls. I think perhaps it was the way you worded it but even so, you’ve had some below the belt comments. It is extremely common for people to protect their disabled children by using discretionary trusts or other similar means.

I am sorry you’ve had such spiteful comments about caring for your wife and questioning your commitment as a husband. Some people really don’t understand the commitment of 24 hour care for an adult for decades on end. I know you mentioned dinners and day trips, it’s really great you are able to have these parts of a relationship and life together.

In all kindness, you’re not an expert in this area. The best thing you can do is focus on their understanding (well, MIL’s understanding ), not yours.
They need advice from a professional and it should be independent.
It is important you let her know that directly leaving the £180k means the money will automatically go on care home fees. It’s very kind of you to point them in the direction of help and advice. It is not necessary for you to guide them when this isn’t your area of expertise.

This really needs to be your MIL’s decisions and she should be able to attend (if that’s practical?) and be able to make her decisions independently.

I understand guiding her and explaining that if she wills her daughter £180k, it will all be spent on the care home but it is MIL’s decision. A discretionary trust protects your wife and ensures she has a steady access to income.

It could still be a discretionary trust but you complete a form / document that means there are tax exemptions.
This is the best form of trust for a person who cannot make decisions about their financial affairs and needs to be written in such a way that means it is not included in a financial assessment for social care.
MIL needs independent financial advice.

I think there are some unpleasant tax issues with discretionary trusts eg the every 10 year tax with the weird calculation. The vulnerable persons trust and tax advantages.

I understand your position. However, these statements ring huge alarm bells ”Could my MIL's will be changed to remove my wife and replace her with me? She is still of sound mind. Could the money go into an account in my sole name?”

Does your wife have the mental capacity / ability to manage money? If not, giving £180k to her spouse is madness. You could explain to MIL about care costs and suggest a discretionary trust. Suggesting MIL wills you this sum is not a good idea. If you want to protect the funds, you can find her independent advice so she is not swayed by anyone and can make her own decision about what’s best for her daughter.

My DH was admitted to ITU on a ventilator. I had indicated that I wanted to be involved in any decision to end life support and refused to accept a DNR. The Liverpool Pathway was observed in the hospital he was in. I received a phone call on the morning he passed away to say that the doctor would like to see me to discuss taking him off the ventilator. By the time I arrived they had removed all but the breathing tube and it was clear the decision had been made. He had had a turn for the worse during the early hours of the morning - after I had been advised to leave him to get his rest and go home, and that they would ring if there was any change. They didn’t. He died without regaining consciousness and I still feel cheated.

And what you fail to mention is that if he wants to downsize any profit would be appropriated by the LA to pay for care. The disregard only applies to the house he’s living in at the moment. And if his DW is young, the chances are she will live until OP needs care himself so it would be split.

"Factual statements are a subset of true statements." Discuss.

What about ‘is it factual’?

I'm with MIL and op. Put the money where the council can't get their hands in it ... in trust!

I think it's common for people to be asked to sign up to these (DNAR although I think the name has changed?) in the middle of the night when there are no family around to support the person to make the decision and the person isn't listened to trying to represent themselves. I have friends who have told me that they have overheard these conversations at night on the ward - when visiting someone else. It's not a good system at the moment.

How is my response "chilling"?! I said families should be involved in the discussions and that doctors should be providing the most appropriate treatment which is not keeping people alive at any cost.
I'm not saying that bad things don't happen. But to to claim that DNARs are a sinister tool that allows elderly people to be bumped off I
Is just ridiculous. I'm sorry you had a poor experience with your dad, I really am. But DNARs and advanced care planning have a really important place in the wider care of patients, particularly elderly and frail people.

You sound like a loving husband, but if I was MiL I would set up a trust, just incase you later divorced my daughter and ran off with my dosh.

Sorry @jellycatandkittens I'm not buying it. Which part of the Gosport War Memorial Hospital deaths didn't actually happen? What's really odd about your last comment is that basically you seem to be agreeing with everything I say! Your only point seems to be, yes, doctors can do this and they should be allowed to! Well, I agree we can debate that. But what's the conspiracy?

My point is, there is no debate. It happens with or without the family's consent and there have been other occasions when a relative is put on the Liverpool Care Pathway without the family's consent, the family get them out and they continue to live quite happily, with most if not all of their marbles. We struggled to get Dad out of ACU in Epsom General Hospital in late April last year, he was basically okay after a mild hiccup - all his tests came back okay - but we had to produce a hard copy of our LPA in Health and Welfare while the cow of a matron pored over it to find a loophole, tried every trick in the book to catch us out, got her mates to surround us and film us on the smart phone in the hope we'd lose our rag and the police could be called.

We got Dad home, sat him up at the table, he drank one of those chocolate bio drinks down all by himself, he lived another six months until they got him the next time. Presumably you think they should have got him the first time round? Like, they knew best?

I actually find your response very chilling. There is no discussion. The hospital does what it wants.

typos
*whenever she wishes
*remains unchanged