Inheritance and care home fees

I do feel people who can afford to pay for their care, should.

Do you apply that to hospices, cancer care, surgery, or any other care currently provided by the NHS. The OPs wife is not elderly, she requires care through illness. Presumably you think people should be means-tested if they want obstetric care on the NHS, as that's not even needed through illness, but choice.

https://www.citizensadvice.org.uk/benefits/sick-or-disabled-people-and-carers/attendance-allowance/before-you-claim-attendance-allowance/check-if-entitled-to-attendance-allowance/#:~:text=If%20you%27re%20living%20in,your%20care%20home%20costs%20yourself.

"You can't usually claim Attendance Allowance if you live in a care home and your care is paid for by your local authority. You can still claim Attendance Allowance if you pay for all your care home costs yourself."

You need to recommend your MIL gets a solicitor to rewrite her will with the money going into a trust for the benefit of your wife. You need to suggest this asap as your MIL will need to be of sound mind to do this. There are several types of trust and the solicitor should be able to advise what is most appropriate.

Your wife will be the beneficiary of the trust, the money can only be used for your wife's benefit. However the money does not belong to your wife, it belongs to the trust. It shouldn't be taken into account if you or your wife are being means tested for a benefit.

Your MIL needs to nominate trustees who are responsible for the administration of the trust and releasing money for your wife's benefit. Hopefully she would nominate you. Is there anyone else who could do this alongside you, or if you were ever unable to do this? A relative or longstanding friend?

A solicitor can be a trustee but they would charge for their time.

Trustees have responsibility to register the trust with HMRC, complete a yearly tax return, ensure the trust pays tax due, invest the money appropriately, and to use the money appropriately (in this case for the benefit of your wife).

Be aware that trusts do pay tax which can be in excess of personal tax rates, so do check if your wife's residential care will actually be chargeable to her.

Yes, exactly. This would be called fraud!

It sounds possibly like a stroke. Have you checked you are getting all of the benefits now you are entitled to? Look at attendance allowance.

Why?
gifting is legitimate tax allowance. ALL tax allowances are there for good reason put in by government to drive “right” fiscal behavoiurs with public

anyone thst has money and doesn’t use their allowances is frankly bonkers!

gifting is very limited, it is allowed so that, say, parent can gift money for weddings (gov like marriages) for grandkids (gov like g/c to have money for higher education etc), and for passing on wealth to their children where needed a min of 7years before their death (eg redistributing wealth from older to younger generations to help stability such as housing and take pressure off social housing, rental etc)

we have IHT . Thst taxes “excess” passing on of wealth. Arguably it is too low now as hasn’t been changed despite salary and house price increases and massively sucks in way more people than ever dreamed of. Personally I don’t have issue with it, even though just my house would exceeed it pretty much ! And that’s a 2 bed bungalow I downsized to for my old age.

what is bonkers is the IHT allowance set at 375k but with additional 125k if you have house. Want to know why we have tons of empty houses belonging to elderly living in care homes? Because if the house was sold (for lots of reasons a good thing) ,IHT allowance would reduce . It is dumb low. Drives entirely wrong behavoiurs. Hey ho.

For what it’s worth I paid higher rate tax for years. Bet I paid more tax than Rees Mogg 🤷🏼‍♀️. I do not begrudge that. In fact would have been happy to pay more for nhs, care , and education etc. it is unfair taxing that has always irked me. We were single wave housevnot by choice, dp had severe and enduring mental illness and could not work. No benefits as I earnt too much. But at times couples earning nearly twice my salary combined paid £9-11k LESS tax than we did as family. The unfairness of paying for “care” of someone who cannot manage to look after themselves , often du to cognative decline, which is a physical life limiting illness , vs not paying anything if you need nursing for end of life care for cancer, heart disease etc, is not “fair”. It’s an arbitrary decision based on what costs more, and the universal underfunding of mental illness

It needs to go in a trust for your wife and trustees appointed, hopefully yourself and another.

& when there are no care homes who looks after the elderly? They are businesses would you go to work for free?

And no way is it deprivation of capital

Legally of course your MIL can change her Will so the assets pass to other members of the familiy
Lots of people do this

Sorry on what legal basis. She has not yet inherited the money so how can it be ‘deprivation of assets?’

She hasn't got an inheritance. She may or may not have an inheritance when her mother dies. Her mother's money might all be gone, her mother might decide to leave it to someone else or burn it but the OPs wife has not inherited anything.

OP please look into claiming attendance allowance as well for your wife, and MIL if she’s not already claiming

Not sure about this -but is a deed of variation a possibility in this case?

This thread actualy sucks

What's your wife's diagnosis? If she's not elderly and her care is due to health needs she could be eligible for continuing health care funding.

As regards your mother-in-law, I wouldn't bet on either of you receiving any inheritance. She would only need to live another three years and it'll be pretty much gone.

You said what the OP was considering was deprivation of assets and it isn't. Giving her DD the money now would be deprivation of assets as far as the mother is concerned, pointless as it would just mean the daughter is paying but regardless leaving money in a will is not deprivation of assets.

No where did you say if the mother gives them the money now it is deprivation of assets. You either didn't understand the question, didn't explain your answer properly or you are just moving the goal posts because you realise you got it wrong.

Agreed!

Don't worry another nasty,vindictive poster has already beaten you to it.

To expect the state to pay for elderly care like in the good old days is naive in the extreme. Will you pay more tax to cover this?

Yes, I would be absolutely happy to pay more tax to cover this. On average it would cost me the same as paying for it myself if the need arises. But less risky. Classic case for social insurance.

Hmm?🧐
by stamp the poster means national insurance
That used to cover much of nhs.
NURSING care, IS covered by nhs. It will depend on level of nursing required. By dad has full funding due to his needs now, changing from about 40% funding about 9 months ago. Full funding will take him through to his death now.

CARE is not fully funded. Though that too can be covered in part by local governement

point is here, many people find funding in care/nursing homes unfair. If you get cancer, a hospice, even for a few months, is free generally. If you get admitted to mental hospital (as my dad has on 3 occasions in run up to transfer to nursing home) it is free. But If people get dementia, or cognitive decline, it is not free until they are nearly bedridden. Right now there’s no cure or prevention for dentistry. It is a disease of old age as primary risk. Unlike say lung cancer in a smoker. This is what is unfair. It is also unfair that there are very few state funded nursing or care homes left. So, people are FORCED to pay privately funded businesses that are creaming off profit from their patient and the state. It’s a bloody outrage frankly.

And yet council tax continues to increase for payers to fund social care needs...

I do feel people who can afford to pay for their care, should. However, I appreciate that people have worked hard to own property or have savings to leave to their loved ones. But what's the point of savings etc if not to look after oneself in old age?!

I also appreciate a lot of people don't pay for their care due to low-savings/income/lack of property. Your wife currently being one of them...

Do you really expect the taxpayer to fund your wife's care for over 30 years without any contribution from yourselves?

Yes, yes, you surely would have contributed to the system yourselves but not over 70k per year, which is approximately what private payers pay, at that minimum, in many nursing homes around the country.