Can’t just be me who is sick of the moaning about the private school VAT and winter fuel payments

Housing, childcare and wages.

As you say wages are higher, childcare an housing costs are lower. People in Europe have more disposable income to spend on tax. Here people have no spare money.

There you go again - ‘strong’, ‘hard working’ etc.

The implication being that others, presumably through pure luck? have not had to work as hard as you, and therefore, they should be penalised -
because they had the temerity to peer through ‘rose-coloured’ spectacles.

Your next fight will be with this Government when they decide to slash support for your child. Who do you think pays for that? That’s right, the taxpayer.

You will not be so quick to defend Labour then.

So why aren't the wealthy leaving all of Europe, where tax rates are higher than the UK and Europe has far better services to show for its equivalent high debt to GDP ?
Overall tax burden Germany 37%, France 46% Spain 42% Italy 41% UK 35%.

German workers of course earn far more than their UK counterpart (average) so their Government collects even greater amounts.

Above inflation pay awards? really? you know there are recruitment crisis's across Health an Education? how would you fix this? perhaps a lapel badge, as suggested by Hancock will do the job.

Uk inflation hit 11%, food & energy saw increases of 20% to 300%, 5.5% is nothing.
There will in increased Tax revenues too, plus it will reduce tax credits paid to the lowest earners.

Funny how you don't mention how the Tories could "afford" a 4% cut in NI or allowed migration to go from 200k p.a in 2011 to 764k p.a in 2022, nothing to day with their disastrous Brexit was it.

Above** 😂😂😂😂 your nuts.

Rose tinted is a perfectly normal used expression and used by the whole general population.

But I'm flattered about the fact all you had was insults I don't give a shit about 🤭

And I'm no victim. Don't you dare suggest I am.---- I'm a bloody strong woman who can calmly and effectively use the correct channels to get what is right and I don't need to throw my toys out over the internet like others do.

The VAT is a useful smokescreen for them to disguise their true feelings. They will never admit to it of course.

Not here it isn't.

I couldn't give a shiney shite what people choose.

What I care about is people saying "we've worked hard to send our kids private" "we've made sacrifices to send our kid private" with complete rose tinted glasses to the reality for the other 93% of the population.

I worked extremely hard to get my disabled ds an ehcp to get a state education he could handle. Alongside working damn hard to get a job around caring for him as a single parent.

My kid didn't not do a private school because of lack of hard work.

And if someone doesn't want to pay Vat on the goods they are buying then use the state system the rest of us have to. It's not rocket science.

And then there’s the kids at failing comprehensives who don’t get their A levels and fall out the system without a degree.
I wish people would stop talking about state schools as an equal group and of schools.

This exactly!

For many, it’s more about your right to send your children to private education - who do you think you are?

The VAT is a useful smokescreen for them to disguise their true feelings. They will never admit to it of course.

Average income for a single pensioner is £14,144*. In some areas of the country it's 10% less. Women are disproportionally represented in the lower end of the income scale ( as you'd expect).

I have offered to assist any local pensioners with a pension credit claim as many round here are entitled to it but for one reason or another don't claim it.

*source https://www.gov.uk/government/statistics/pensioners-incomes-financial-years-ending-1995-to-2023/pensioners-incomes-financial-years-ending-1995-to-2023#regional-differences

Gene is also work on the same sector as you. My own ds is disabled so worked well around him (also a LP).

I didn't have a choice to go and get a high paying career because I have caring responsibilities. But I work damn hard in a Sector that's got harder during austerity and funding cuts.

But my point is that the country needs those who cover every type of job. Not every single person can be a lawyer. We need to who do public service service jobs, retail etc.

Genevivia Sunak said "hard working people" numerous times every time he referenced bay on private schools.

He also said it about anything where it was about not having enough money.

Always the implication that just working hard enough would be all it needed.

Mostly about the same sector or people who were hailed "keyworkers keeping the country running" during the pandemic.

It's all just semantics. But they are used against people as a veiled insult.

I got all As in my A-levels and I went to a bog standard comprehensive. Once you've got a degree, nobody cares what you got in your A-levels.

I've also worked in universities and academic staff are usually well aware that a student with straight As from a state school will usually be a lot better that a student with straight As from a private school.

Hell yeh! There are schools where a very bright child gets beaten up every day and the school do nothing about it, and the child is so traumatised panic attacks stop them attending. No ‘bright child’ survives that! Which is why we chose private school.

It would have been nice if they had sorted out the truly horrific schools prior to slamming on theVAT but the politics of envy mob were demanding to be sated. Don’t get me wrong, I don’t mind the VAT. I really mind the middle classes with the perfect grammar school who close their eyes and ears to the fact that some only have a dire state school offering.

Do bear in mind that they will have paid a colossal amount of tax.

I went to a comprehensive and it was absolutely shit. Ds did year 7 and 8 at our local good comp. It was like a prison, the whole system arranged around managing terrible behaviour. He left and went to private school and has done extremely well. To be fair the 6th form of the comp is supposed to be pretty good, but the depressing slog of year 7-11 wasn't worth it.

Yes. I only know rich pensioners. It’s my echo chamber. I know a hedge fund manager who got his winter fuel allowance. He tried to get HMRC to take it back and they wouldn’t. I know loads and loads of pensioners on much less only ‘scraping by’ on £20k a year private pension, £25k a year income from BTL property and state pension on top for instance. No mortgage to pay. That’s my parents and their friends. Holiday every other month. I don’t begrudge them, but - and the IFS will back this up - they are the demographic group with the highest amount of disposable income on average. And don’t need any more free income.

Maybe the means testing needs to be readjusted, but this free money needs to be taken off rich pensioners and spent elsewhere.

There are comprehensives and comprehensives.
Some absolutely fail their students.

I’ve not heard anyone saying it’s about working or not working hard enough. Different careers have different pay profiles. I could have become a lawyer and earned enough to pay for private schooling. I could have worked in a private school that offered a fee discount. I, selfishly perhaps, found I really enjoyed working with vulnerable teenagers with complex mental health and SEN profiles. I work in a school my children are not eligible to attend and I earn a salary insufficient to pay school fees. It’s my choice. I don’t begrudge others their choices and I do understand that a sudden change in financial circumstances is painful, so there are thousands of stressed parents at the moment.

I think the A level results have been so much better from private school this year that people will just suck up the 20%. Around where I live anyway it's definitely an investment.

The rich, which it's assumed includes pensioners because they're all boomers having a lovely time and a just a drain on society anyway..

But this includes people like my Dad from a mining background (and worked down the pits for several years before he relocated before the 80s strikes) and worked in other jobs for decades and in the north where he benefitted from low housing costs and was able to buy with my Step-Mum.

And owns a house outright, has 100k savings in the bank and gets a reduced pension as he claims carers allowance for my Step-Mum who gets high rate PIP for both components as she has several conditions which will likely end her life in the next few years.

Do they need the winter fuel allowance? nope. Do they need PIP? nope .Do they need their pensions? nope. But they were both public sector workers for decades, paid NI and tax and in the scheme of things, aren't among 'the rich' of society.

Should they expect to benefit from what they put into society and take something out? maybe.

Personally, I don't think they should get the winter fuel allowance or be eligible for PIP as I think it should be means-tested but they were working-class workers for decades and saved instead of having bigger homes, cars, holidays etc.

They weren't living the high-life all their lives, as is the widespread assumption, particularly on MN about pensioners.

I think they might have the right to be pissed off that their benefits are being cut, the ones they didn't claim till they were pensioners.

And like I said upthread, my views on PIP apply to everyone and many MNetters will melt down at the suggestion of means testing.

I've heard many of my aquaintences with kids in private education moaning about it, moaning about affordability - yet none of them are removing their children and 3 of them are planning for their younger kids to start next year and buying!

My friends and I who are all public sector just laugh at how we clearly don't "just work hard enough" to have to worry about paying for private education!

For those I know who are entitled to winter fuel then no one cares. My dad laughed last year when he got the payment as hadn't even realised he be entitled 😂 (probably more likely forgot).

The only person I know this bracket who is said they'd just £20 a month extra on their current DD and that'll cover it - because they've already got good credit after it being a milder winter last year.

MN seems to be the biggest place of discontent over private school VAT. I can't help but laugh at their indignation - the levels of whataboutery and looking for reasons to diss Labour over it are actually quite impressive 😂

Economics is not Labours strong suit.

Do you only know rich pensioners?

I know several who are just above the pension credit level thanks to putting a bit by for their old age who are seriously worried about how they are going to pay their bills this winter.

I'm also wondering how much paying benefits to all the ancillary staff at closing private schools is going to cost. They are huge employers and the state system isn't going to offer them replacement jobs.

I'd be interested to hear that too.