Can’t just be me who is sick of the moaning about the private school VAT and winter fuel payments

Economics is not Labour’s strong suit, as we know.

The VAT was a populist move, designed purely to show their electoral base that they are sticking it to ‘the wealthy’. Similarly with Landlords.

Capital will flee (the UK is second only to China in the exodus of millionnaires). Those who remain will be poorer, but the poorest will be hit the hardest, because their benefits and support will be hit.

Boarding at the dcs old school costs 36k a year. Some have three children there. That's over 100k after tax. I agree there are some insanely rich people out there.

Sorry, I'm still not clear how your taxes subsidise private education?

So private school parent unless gaining bursary has to have on average £18,000 spare cash each year floating around. Not struggling at all. Goodness, very tone deaf to people than really struggle.

I just find it strange that some people still think that any money obtained from the VAT (dubious, small amount) will actually go to state schools. The increase in public sector pay has spent it several times over already. And we have an autumn of strikes to come I think - more will be spent of money we do not have.

As for the pensioners, I feel beyond sorry for anyone who now find themselves unable to hear their house as they are a few pounds above the limit.

I'm sure with your "couple of degrees" you can think of better things to fill your time with. Humble brag. Sad

They found that due to reductions in national insurance tax had gone down for most people.

In the OBR analysis, the NI reduction is more than offset by the freeze on the personal allowance at £12,570. Nearly 4 mn people at the basic rate of 20% will pay more tax overall between 2022-23 and 2028-29. A further 3 mn will pay more tax as a result of moving into the higher rate 40% band at £50,271, while 400k more people will be pulled into the top “additional” 45% rate on income over £125,140.

So roughly, at least half a million (500,000) more workers in the bottom 90% will pay more tax than the number of people in the top 10% who will end up paying more tax.

So it is not accurate to generalise things as the top 10% having an overall tax rise while the bottom 90% has had an overall tax cut.

Paying off student loan debt is not a tax and should not be counted as such.

Be thankful for being in such a situation, millions of people would give their eye teeth to be able put 4 children through PS.

Paying taxes towards services you don't receive is very common, just ask the millions who don't have children at all, yet their taxes pay towards others Child Benefit and Education, its how we run as a society.

Private schooling is a luxury that the vast majority cannot afford, many luxury services are VAT rated, if the £7bn, over 5 years, isn't collected from School Fees, it will have to be found from either other (less well off) people paying more tax or even more services cut, which hits the poorest.

As for the pp on the wealthiest in the UK "owning half of Poland" i was wrong, the 350 people in the Sunday Times rich list actually have far more than the GDP of Poland (which is 580 billion) the richest in the UK have a combined wealth of £790 billion.

Thats about 1/3rd of the GDP of the UK..... just 350 people.

Yet we have no money & cannot tax more!

SugarandSpiceandAllThingsNaice, BBC radio 4 More or Less programme did an item on how 2 statements could both be true - highest tax burden in 70 years and also tax cuts. They found that due to reductions in national insurance tax had gone down for most people. However for the top 10% loss of things like the single person tax allowance, no child benefit, meant their tax had risen. I think also rise in the minimum wage played a part. I agree that the upper marginal rate of tax and NI is 45% and 2% NI but if you factor in no single person tax allowance the effective top rate is higher and many of those people also now have 9% student loan tax/charge.

I don't expect there's anyone in the country who feels sorry for people paying more for something than they do!

you are expecting lower paid tax payers to subsidise your educational needs

What? I paid for four to go through private school while also paying a huge amount of tax, some used for other people's state education - a benefit which I didn't use.

I don't know anybody it affects. I don't feel sorry for the private school parents. I have a bit of sympathy for pensioners just above the pension credit limit. It's nothing like as generous as benefits for families.

The latest census from the Independent Schools Council (ISC) reveals that the average fee for a day school is now £6,021 per term – or £18,064 per year for 2023-24 academic year. The census is based on a survey of 1,411 UK independent schools in January.
https://whichschooladvisor.com/uk/school-news/rising-cost-of-uk-private-school-fees-families-paying-average-ps18000-a-year

I had £17k in my head as that was the 22/23 figure

No one is saying you are part of the ‘evil rich what own half of Poland’ if that even is a thing.

I simply object characterising what is obviously privilege as just being ordinary or average.

If you are lucky enough to be physically able to work that long. Statistically, around 1/3rd end up unable to work due to illness/injury before the current pension age as is.

where are these figures for fees coming from? They vary enormously and there are myriad surrounding circumstances related to housing costs, geographical location. I don't think I will continue to argue this. There are too many variables that are relevant that can't be answered without giving out very specific relevant details - suffice to say I am one of many from very ordinary backgrounds in ordinary careers (not NMW but nothing remotely special) that has found a way to support my child according to their need and are now being villified as the evil "rich" who own half of Poland. No sensible conversation can be had in that context - especially when pp are casting doubt on the SEN diagnoses as above. I'm out.

anyone who’s in a private school ‘journey’ as I’ve noticed many of them call it are not ‘struggling’.
I totally understand why if you’re paying £25k for fees per child you don’t want to pay another £5k per child on top of that but it’s not most people’s definition of ‘struggling’.
Particularly when there is an easy alternative, one that the majority of families already happily use…

@AboveBeyond3 are you an actuary?

I really object to categorising anyone that can pay on average £17k/yr on school fees per child as “struggling financially”.

A worker with total before tax salary of £17k is in the 26th centile, in other words their salary is more than that of 25% of the population.
https://www.projectfinanciallyfree.com/uk-income-percentile-calculator/

To have £17k spare per child, you’re not struggling financially.
Struggling financially means to me struggling to pay for life’s basic essentials not struggling to purchase a very expensive luxury service when you have more than enough to cover life’s basic essentials.

So how many parents send their SEN kids to a private school and are also struggling financially?

We have the current education funding issues because of 14 years of the Tories, no one gave a fuck that they were screwing over the poorest in society, the ones most impacted by Austerity, which most people moaning non stop about VAT on fees, would have voted for.

But the moment someone comes along to try and reverse the situation, oh my God, all hell breaks loose!

I wonder how many people complaining about WFA, moaned quite so loudly when Sunak increased student loan repayment period to 40 years, froze loan thresholds and even lowered the the salary at which repayments start?

answer? none, you voted for more of the same, fuck over the young whilst keeping what you ve got.

And in the SEN front - and I am by no means saying this is the friend’s situation - Inwas amazed at how many of our friends kids who were absolutely fine, bright and able, in primary school suddenly got private SEN diagnosis in private secondaries until one mentioned that her private school encouraged the tests, oh and BTW that means more time in exams…

Perhaps you could help your mum out? Dsibs and I try to help out where we can ( and when we’re allowed to!) with things like this in winter.
and as for your friends son, SEN provision in many state schools is excellent. There’s a myth that state schools are all terrible at everything, and the reality isn’t that were true none of us would be happy using them, and even our selfish, self interested bastard Tory ex- overlords would have had to have dealt with that.

I honestly don’t think people who have never had a child with sen or close friends/ family with sen children have any clue how bad the support for sen is and what a battle it is. To be fair before I had an autistic child I just assumed that children that needed a 1-1 or some other support just somehow for this, I had no comprehension that people were having to go to to tribunal just to get assessment, then potentially tribunal again to get support. You see comments all the time when people have kids that are struggling in mainstream and posters will say “have you thought about sending them to special school” like this is a choice that is actually available and the op hasn’t thought of it! It’s peoole like yourself who are hardest hit by the vat increase

If I had a parent who would struggle for the want of £150 I’d transfer the money to her bank account.

@RhaenysRocks I know of 4 PS near me, none of whom anyone outside of the area would have heard of.
They offer learning and sporting facilities that are off the scale compared to any state school in the same area.

Would be beyond incompetent if they cannot reduce costs but still keep their PS ethos.

I never said you are wealthy but the vast majority of PS parents very much are.
I read today that the combined wealth of the Sunday Times Rich List is larger than the economy of Poland.

When i had to move my child due to bullying, no one gave me a reduction on the transport fees i had to pay, you are expecting lower paid tax payers to subsidise your educational needs, Which most parents in this country cannot access & that 7 billion, if not raised by VAT on fees,will need to be paid for by other tax payers.