Can’t just be me who is sick of the moaning about the private school VAT and winter fuel payments

I find this a really interesting discussion - and completely understand that when you have saved so much for your pension, you are very upset that other were not as prudent.

just as an example, a public sector employee with a career average salary of £40k (lower than all train drivers) and a 1/60 contribution (train drivers, civil servants are 1/60, doctors are 1/50) will get an annual pension of £26,666 in addition to the state minimum pension.

a private pension pot of £375k (taking no lump sum) will give you £24,769 annually in addition to the state minimum pension. Around 5.9m people work in the public sector.

most public sector employees have pension pot equivalents the private sector only can dream on and all increases in salary will also increase those pensions.

Dies the WFA bother you more than the public sector pensions? I would assume that almost none of the people on the breadline worked for the public sector….

With regards to the 10% of £16m…. Still more in tax than I have paid in my life and will pay and that in one year… Have you paid this much tax?

There was me thinking that tax rates applied to all? yet now we have a "special" tax rate for the v wealthy, based not on a % but on the total amount of tax.

Obviously i haven't paid 1.6m in tax but then again, i haven't "earned" £16m either.

Yes our debt is terrible, thats what 14 years of the Tories have done to this country but what is really shameful is that this debt has got us nothing at all in return, terrible roads, healthcare, transport & housing.

Pls don't mention GFC, Covid or Ukraine, all these things have affected other European countries too.

We are in the mess we are in due to the Tories & their Austerity policies.

Yes i do know some extremely wealthy people, with zero intention of the leaving the UK, whatever the tax rates, their lives are here: children, friends, social contacts, work, they love the countryside and our more temperate climate.
They all have hols homes abroad but wouldn't want to live there FT.

Even for the super rich, moving to an EU country is difficult & in your 50s and 60s, Dubia isn't really that attractive.

I was with you until this.
The size of someone's family should be down to the couple raising the family, not anyone else.

Too many people rubbed their hands together with glee when the two child benefit cap was introduced, because there is this inherent hatred of people that choose to have more than two kids (and I know this on a personal level).

I am subjected to outright venom when out and about with my family.

My partner works so many hours to support us that I feel like I barely see him, but it's not okay for us to get a little bit of additional help because someone else chose not to have a big family for financial reasons, whereas we chose to take the chance because I know I would never regret a child I had but would always regret never going for another child just because it meant we have a little less money.

I worked my arse off before having a family, I know what it's like to work, and I never once resented any of my tax money going to those that needed help, it never even entered my head, because I'm not spiteful and selfish.

Why is it okay for children to be pushed into poverty, children that didn't ask to be born, but not okay for pensioners that can for the most part find the money, not to?

I understand it must be hard being a boomer and being used to everything being handed to you, but this is what it's like for everyone else, and if you find it awful then imagine what every day younger people have gone through the past 14 years that those pensioners have been voting in Tories (their main target audience) and screwing everyone else over.

I don't have sympathy, I just don't.
When they're paying more than just a pittance in mortgage fees or tiny little social housing rents, I may have more sympathy.

But do not come for those that decided that they wanted more than two kids, we've had enough of being the equivalent to what is found on the bottom of your shoe.

I do think the WFA decision is problematic. While I absolutely support the principle that it should not be paid to pensioners who clearly don't need it, using PC as a gateway is imo a mistake. Pensioner benefits are inconsistent and complex enough as it is, already resulting in some being significantly better off than others (The PIP/AA situation being one example) and the PC gateway for WFA adds another layer to this. I know it would have been more costly and less efficient to implement, but I do wish they'd use a proper means test with a sliding scale for entitlement.

I think means testing the WF payments is common sense.
I think VAT on Private School fees is a bad move and my kids are in state school.
People have the right to voice their opinion in the UK. There are other countries you can move to where they aren't allowed, if you find it so annoying.

"Fundamentally, the country is broke, the NHS is broken, public sector spending (and pensions) are out of control- and the big savings so far is a) winter fuel allowance (hitting some very badly off pensioners) and VAT on independent schools (hitting a lot of children with undiagnosed SEN) - both policies unlikely to bring in anywhere near what they are expected to do"

It now appears lots of PS children have undiagnosed SEN, goodness, the lengths people go to. The scrabbling about to make sure people who have more spare cash floating around than average go to. 🙄the excuses, the reasons why they shouldn't pay vat. Did this level of whinging occur when very poor people lost FSM

To be honest, I can see both sides - especially as I have moved from the private to the public sector.

I would be keen to know if posters who are supportive of all this are public sector or private sector?

(As public sector employee) I work from home three days a week, two in the office - great for not paying for wraparound care. No need to come in if there are train strikes. Great pension. No way to measure productivity, people working from home log on late, log off early and disappear for long periods. I actually work really hard but many don’t…. And there are so many of us….

https://www.ons.gov.uk/employmentandlabourmarket/peopleinwork/publicsectorpersonnel/timeseries/g7g3/pse

Very condensed answer I would be fine with absolutely nobody getting the winter fuel allowance.
You make a choice in life.
many, many people who have paid into a private pension and don’t receive pension credit are financially worse off than those who will get this benefit.
As already pointed out the benefits some people get far out way the benefits lots of others who have wired hard all their life get.
Do I want to work until I am 71 to pay for those who chose to not make sacrifices and pay into a private pension? No I don’t . I don’t care how cold they claim to be. Go and get a job. Go an volunteer so you are not at home.
I often work 7 days a week. I am very mindful of reducing my energy use.

It’s really not personal - but I will continue to call out BS when I see it.

Have a good day - I’m heading out.

If you say so.

I suspect you are not really here for a genuine discussion, given your attitude towards me and to other posters.

🙄

You used your initiative!

Good for you!

Your last point is still wrong however.

I’m not certain if you are being sarcastic - I shall answer as if you are not.

What are you borrowing for?
At what rate?
For what term?
How will you fund the repayments?

You see where I am going - tell me you do, please.

You left off the rest of the detail from your ONS quote:

So far this financial year the Government has borrowed £51.4bn, which is £4.7bn more than the OBR predicted.

An extra £4.7bn isn't a huge amount in the scheme of things.

Is borrowing always a bad thing?

If your house needs a new roof and you don't have the funds to fix it, better to borrow money to do so than let the rain rot you home.

And heres some more stats for you.

Source ONS.

The treasury borrowed 3bn in July, above the 0.1
forecast by the OBR.

Well done, you’ve let foxy into the henhouse…

FGS use your initiative.

Just saying YouGov isn’t providing a link.

Yougov.

If three years is ancient history, then we won’t need to wait long until we see the fruits of Labours efforts, will we? Shall we say, by year end? Is that short enough for you?

If your aunt is 85, and and her only income is state pension, she will only be in receipt of Basic State Pension of £169.50 (payable to to women over 71.5 & men over 73.5) rather than the New State Pension of £221.20 payable to younger pensioners. So she should be applying for Pension Credit anyway. I realise that your aunt may have an additional small income so this may not apply to her, but for most of the oldest pensioners with only Basic State Pension, if they are a applying for the Pension Credit they are entitled to, they should still get the WFP.

If you stand by it, please provide a link. Mine clearly shows a post election rise before dropping back to pre election levels, ie the level on which he won the election. Three years ago is ancient history in political terms.

Try reading my OP.

I stand by it.

From 65% three years ago to 45% at the last count.
I would call a 30% drop significant. Feel free to spin it.

Read the article. His personal approval ratings are at the same level now as they were during the election campaign. Maybe at least attempt a fact check before accusing people who disagree with you of “spouting nonsense”.