Can’t just be me who is sick of the moaning about the private school VAT and winter fuel payments

Public sector employees can usually opt out of the pension scheme. Rules vary on ability to opt back in.

It’s hard to project as the auto-enrollment with employer contribution into DC pensions has only been around 12yrs. This is a move to make occupational pensions more equitable between the private and public sectors.

Certainly more than enough money is being contributed to result in a higher pension than the public sector ones have, however the DC pensions have all the risk of the market and so depending on crashes, recessions OR fabulous returns, the average pension pot after 40+ yrs of contributing is an unknown and depends on how optimistically or pessimistically pension pot growth is projected.

https://www.ons.gov.uk/employmentandlabourmarket/peopleinwork/workplacepensions

The above is done with the census, so not very often.

also, the private sector employees have defined contribution pensions. There is no guarantee whatever about returns, development, final pension pot or what annuity they can buy.

public sector employees have a guaranteed, inflation linked, CPI linked income for life….

@SugarandSpiceandAllThingsNaice

that is interesting, do you have any data / link showing the expected pension pot for someone on a similar salary? Or a scalable one?

can private sector employees opt out? If so, should we allow public sector employees to opt out against a pay raise?

in any case, someone now on state pension only is probably not an ex public sector employee….

Quite a lot will, especially since auto-enrollment

If your parents were earning less than people on benefits, they would have been entitled to Family Income Supplement or Family Credit, which replaced it in 1986.

The cap is two children.

OK, so working in the public sector for 40 years, making 17k the entire time, 1/60 means an annual pension of 11,333 without state pension.

In order to buy an annuity of £10,325 annually, you need a pension pot of £165k (no cash lump sum).

how many people in the private sector have even that?

I’m back. Now, where were we?

Eloquently put, but your point is moot.

Some like to outsource responsibility and ownership. ‘I shall have four kids because it’s my inalienable right etc’.

Often with little thought as to how they plan to house, feed and school their offspring, and the impact on the children themselves.

And we see the consequences everyday - often in the press, with poorly raised children becoming poorly behaved adults.

The Gov decided 2 is the max, not 3 unless 2&3 are twins or 3 was a product of rape or incest backed up by police charges.

Every child is in genuine need. I think we forget that withholding financial support doesn’t punish the parents but the children.

I am not sure that public sector employees are more worthy as people than private sector employees. However, only one of those groups are guaranteed not to retire in poverty. Both groups pay taxes and spend their money in the U.K.

Neither group is guarenteed to not retire in poverty 🤣
I think you are unfortunately comparing apples to oranges because many lower level public servants do indeed retire in poverty. Like the lowly bin man hired by the local council who starts at £17k and tops out at £25k….

The civil service is another matter, these public servants will tend to have post graduate degrees and professional qualifications that would mean they would not retire in poverty no matter who they worked for so long as they contribute enough to a pension. That’s why they tend to go back and forth between private and public sector jobs.

As always, the likelihood of retiring in poverty is really a function of education, profession and socio-economic class. It’s not a public vs private sector divide.

Eastern, I am also looking forward to the budget!!!

But why is there these shortfalls? As someone who have done all kind of works going (fruit picking, Burger King, cleaning hotel rooms), would not many public sector jobs be both much better paid and better conditions? Many law students I knew (without massive funding from home) worked part time in prisons or similar (not UK), especially if they had an interest in criminal law.

with regards to train drivers, I believe that the recruitment process is hugely competitive.

Pension benefits for new starters may have been reduced but I still think they are amazing as a fairly new joiner.

I am not sure that public sector employees are more worthy as people than private sector employees. However, only one of those groups are guaranteed not to retire in poverty. Both groups pay taxes and spend their money in the U.K.

and most posters here are hugely supportive of increased public sector salaries, increased public sector holidays, enhanced working from home… massive spending spree… whilst also saying that it is necessary to withdraw the WFA.

The VAT I could understand if it actually will bring in money - but I am unsure if it will.

again, I find it fascinating how people view this so please don’t believe that I am trying to pick on any specific poster.

I've only worked in the private sector and can see there might be a split on this, pay rises v tax rises, obviously one is preferable over the other

I guess we'll see re budget and how everything gets paid for

You re assuming they have worked in the public sector for 30 or 40 years, many do not.
They will also being paying tax on that, plus spending it in the UK, in their local economy.
The other thing is we have huge shortfalls in teaching, health, probation and prison services, so whilst you might think these pensions are not affordable, how else do we get people to join and stay in these sectors?

I do believe the UK also has a shortage of train drivers!!

Pension benefits for new starters in the public sector have been reduced too.

It is not just people in need with children who benefit from my taxes. It is all people with children as I contribute towards child benefit. education and health care.

Having any number of children is a lifestyle choice. Should people not have children at all unless they can pay for all their needs independently?

I’m sure some of your DC’s teachers were state educated so you still benefited from it.

Yes. And that is day school per child, as a poster later added boarding school is twice that. Completely tone deaf.

But that what tax is for-to support each other and the wider running of the UK, is it not?

I never had children, but I am happy for my tax to go towards supporting other people's. We need people to have more children than they are currently having, not fewer.

By all means call it out but have the courtesy to back up your assertions. If you make a claim provide evidence otherwise I’ll just discount whatever you say. All my “initiative” - I don’t think that’s what you actually mean - is used providing links that back up my points. I’m not your secretary.