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Can’t just be me who is sick of the moaning about the private school VAT and winter fuel payments

587 replies

TruthorDie · 16/08/2024 22:09

The moaning about them seems to be never ending. So tone death and indulgent on both counts. Not sure which is worse. A friends mum was ranting on social media earlier about winter fuel payments being stopped and how “worried about being cold” she was. Bad news is Lynn you haven’t needed to work since 1989, married to an oil exec and have had lots of the good life. I’m sure all of your Florida holidays keep you warm enough!

Bright children can get on anywhere, my siblings and l went to a comprehensive. We all have a couple of degrees, one of us has a PhD so it didn’t hold us back too much in life. Before anyone comes at it from the neurodiversity angle then l am and l wouldn’t be surprised if my younger sibling isn’t

OP posts:
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AboveBeyond3 · 19/08/2024 11:21

5128gap · 19/08/2024 11:12

Are you seriously suggesting that without the Labour Party (allegedly) 'seeking to divide people along demographic lines' there were no such divisions? That somehow people had failed to notice the huge disparity between their own quality of life, opportunities and advantages compared with people from other demographics? Because of so, you're confusing acknowledgement of an issue with the creation of one.
What you're seeing here is a predictable flurry of anxiety amongst individuals who compared to others, did very nicely under the former administration, and now fear the new one might start prioritising the interests of other demographics over their own.
Its not a new divide created by Labour, its just a belated willingness to acknowledge and condemn it by people who fear it may work less in their own interests now.

Can I ask - who do you believe did very nicely under the previous administration?

Your words.

Please advise.

Captainmycaptains · 19/08/2024 11:21

‘Potholes and playgrounds are local council competencies. You need to petition locally.’

thanks for the top fucking tip. There’s NO money. Get it? Although, I guess the Tories did manage to find cash to bail out bankers, give Rwanda a couple of hundred mill, and give charity breaks to private schools… so maybe our new government can have a look around and see what they can do.

PandoraSox · 19/08/2024 11:19

HighGrem · 19/08/2024 11:07

The DWP can already access bank accounts.

They don't need a bunch of forms, they can just access bank accounts and come up with an amount of savings that would exclude people from claiming. They already do for other benefits.

Nope. DWP can only access bank accounts currently if they suspect fraud.

The Data Protection and Digital Information Bill introduced by the Tories intended to widen those powers in the way you suggest. That bill fell because it was not completed by the end of the ‘wash-up’ before the GE.

ZanyFox · 19/08/2024 11:16

If either of my parents were struggling to heat their home I’d house them myself

Of course you would.

ZanyFox · 19/08/2024 11:15

What you're seeing here is a predictable flurry of anxiety amongst individuals who compared to others, did very nicely under the former administration, and now fear the new one might start prioritising the interests of other demographics over their own

That's a very naive way of looking at it.

Which demographics do you mean, exactly? The train drivers? The junior doctors?

Jamtomorrowandthenextday · 19/08/2024 11:13

Universalsnail · 18/08/2024 13:25

My Mum is literally £10 over the limit for pension credits and therefore won't get her winter fuel allowance and is really worried and will suffer this winter.

Can’t she move in with you or another relative? Is this not the solution?

The problem is a lot of people 40-odd years ago put nothing by for their retirement as there weren’t the auto enrolment schemes we have these days and live expectancy wasn’t much beyond retirement age. Now the elderly are living much longer, and although working people are putting much more by for retirement there are many living pensioners living an unexpectedly long life off not a lot.

If either of my parents were struggling to heat their home I’d house them myself. It’s hard to expect the state to provide enough money to house, heat and feed elderly people who have no alternative income or savings. I would rather that money was put by for those who need long term care.

AboveBeyond3 · 19/08/2024 11:13

Captainmycaptains · 19/08/2024 10:54

Okay, but I’m happy to pay more tax if the public transport system, state school system, State health system, care system work again, if the potholes are fixed, if people in need of mental health support get it, if children’s play parks get refurbished, if crime comes down, if we have the teachers, nurses, carers we need.
Tax is taken in steps depending on your earnings, I can afford to pay more. Others earn less and will/do pay much less tax.
I’m okay with that.

What I’m not okay with is a government that treated anyone ‘below’ them in status or earnings as less than them, while giving tax breaks to their wealthy mates and sounding millions up the wall on ridiculous schemes like Rwanda.

So yes - let them ‘ come for ‘ me.

Health, education, social services etc will not be fixed. The issues are systemic, and tax/spend without addressing the underlying issues will achieve little to nothing.

5128gap · 19/08/2024 11:12

AboveBeyond3 · 18/08/2024 14:15

Let’s be honest, it’s a war out there. Your money, my money.

People will continue to try to protect their own interests whilst Labour seek to divide people along demographic lines including age, class, creed etc.

People vote for who they will believe will protect their (predominantly economic) interests.

Those who suggest otherwise are in denial.

Are you seriously suggesting that without the Labour Party (allegedly) 'seeking to divide people along demographic lines' there were no such divisions? That somehow people had failed to notice the huge disparity between their own quality of life, opportunities and advantages compared with people from other demographics? Because of so, you're confusing acknowledgement of an issue with the creation of one.
What you're seeing here is a predictable flurry of anxiety amongst individuals who compared to others, did very nicely under the former administration, and now fear the new one might start prioritising the interests of other demographics over their own.
Its not a new divide created by Labour, its just a belated willingness to acknowledge and condemn it by people who fear it may work less in their own interests now.

Genevieva · 19/08/2024 11:07

Captainmycaptains · 19/08/2024 10:54

Okay, but I’m happy to pay more tax if the public transport system, state school system, State health system, care system work again, if the potholes are fixed, if people in need of mental health support get it, if children’s play parks get refurbished, if crime comes down, if we have the teachers, nurses, carers we need.
Tax is taken in steps depending on your earnings, I can afford to pay more. Others earn less and will/do pay much less tax.
I’m okay with that.

What I’m not okay with is a government that treated anyone ‘below’ them in status or earnings as less than them, while giving tax breaks to their wealthy mates and sounding millions up the wall on ridiculous schemes like Rwanda.

So yes - let them ‘ come for ‘ me.

Are pensioners getting those things by losing their winter fuel allowance?

Do you really believe any of those thing as will happen?

Potholes and playgrounds are local council competencies. You need to petition locally.

One example of macro government competency is education (my area of expertise). There is a lot of like to change about 11-16 education. I’d also like to get rid of Multi academy trusts and give schools the autonomy promised 14 years ago, but none of what Labour are saying is on the mark and they risk undoing a lot of good work.

According to international data from PISA testing etc, English schools are now among the best performing in the world. Primary school children are the most proficient readers in the western world; 15-year-olds in English schools are 11th in the world in maths (up from 27th in 2009); 13th in science (up from 16th); and 13th in reading (up from 25th).

I’m not aware of special tax breaks for anyone in the U.K. except Kier Starmer, whose personal pension is so generous and exempt from all other clawbacks that impact the rest of us that it has its own Act of Parliament. Just for him. It’s quite something.

HighGrem · 19/08/2024 11:07

PandoraSox · 19/08/2024 10:30

It acts as a passport to other help for disabled people, so I don't really have a problem if that is happening tbh.

The PIP process is complex and very burdensome financially to administer. Adding means testing would make it even more expensive to administer. Unless the bar was set very low and only the poorest qualified, I doubt it would save much, if anything, to means test.

The DWP can already access bank accounts.

They don't need a bunch of forms, they can just access bank accounts and come up with an amount of savings that would exclude people from claiming. They already do for other benefits.

ZanyFox · 19/08/2024 11:00

HighGrem · 19/08/2024 08:26

A lot of Mnetters don't like the elderly and think they're a drain on society as it is so of course they don't care about pensioners losing their winter fuel allowance.

MN will melt down if they start means testing PIP though. And I will not be at all surprised if that comes in as a proposal.

And so they should, if they are means testing fuel.

ZanyFox · 19/08/2024 10:59

PandoraSox · 19/08/2024 10:54

Well we all have to contribute to clearing up the mess the Tories left behind so it is only fair that the burden is spread out.

Hopefully it will be spread out to include millionaires with their funds nicely tucked away in the post Brexit legal offshore tax havens (spoiler alert - it wont)

PandoraSox · 19/08/2024 10:54

Genevieva · 19/08/2024 10:43

This is the tip of the iceberg. Wait for the Autumn statement. They’ll come for something that hits you soon enough.

Well we all have to contribute to clearing up the mess the Tories left behind so it is only fair that the burden is spread out.

Captainmycaptains · 19/08/2024 10:54

AboveBeyond3 · 19/08/2024 10:43

100%

Okay, but I’m happy to pay more tax if the public transport system, state school system, State health system, care system work again, if the potholes are fixed, if people in need of mental health support get it, if children’s play parks get refurbished, if crime comes down, if we have the teachers, nurses, carers we need.
Tax is taken in steps depending on your earnings, I can afford to pay more. Others earn less and will/do pay much less tax.
I’m okay with that.

What I’m not okay with is a government that treated anyone ‘below’ them in status or earnings as less than them, while giving tax breaks to their wealthy mates and sounding millions up the wall on ridiculous schemes like Rwanda.

So yes - let them ‘ come for ‘ me.

oldwhyno · 19/08/2024 10:53

There should be 20% VAT on Heinz Baked Beans. Shop brand beans are perfectly good enough. If you're privileged to enough to be able to afford premium brand beans you shouldn't get a public subsidy.

PandoraSox · 19/08/2024 10:48

AboveBeyond3 · 19/08/2024 10:42

Have not seen those, but OK.

Edited

Interesting edit.

Morph22010 · 19/08/2024 10:46

HowIrresponsible · 19/08/2024 08:33

Well yes. One of my colleagues have a disabled child and claim benefits for him despite both of them being very high earners. They don't need the benefits and admit it.

I have a disabled child and claim dla
for him although I am higher rate tax payer. The trouble is though dla is a gateway benefit and often lots of places required it as proof of disability. So for example we go to a disability swim session as he can’t access a main session and dla is needed for proof. Also although they are high earners child may never be able to work

AboveBeyond3 · 19/08/2024 10:43

Genevieva · 19/08/2024 10:43

This is the tip of the iceberg. Wait for the Autumn statement. They’ll come for something that hits you soon enough.

100%

Genevieva · 19/08/2024 10:43

This is the tip of the iceberg. Wait for the Autumn statement. They’ll come for something that hits you soon enough.

AboveBeyond3 · 19/08/2024 10:42

PandoraSox · 19/08/2024 10:38

Its similar to the person driving a nice car - the envious are ‘I cannot have that, but I will make damn sure they cannot either’

Indeed. Look at the many threads on MN about the Motability scheme. The spite is overwhelming.

Have not seen those, but OK.

Frowningprovidence · 19/08/2024 10:42

One of the questions in the recent consultation on PIP and DLA was around whether you would still claim if there was a way to access all the other services /support without recieving payments. That was under the last government.

The point of universal services/non mean testing is that everyone can claim it so they feel less resentment at contributing to the system as its there for them too. Its not just paying for other people all the time.

PandoraSox · 19/08/2024 10:38

AboveBeyond3 · 19/08/2024 10:30

What’s clear is that there is a lot of envy masquerading as social conscience.

Its similar to the person driving a nice car - the envious are ‘I cannot have that, but I will make damn sure they cannot either’

It’s a nasty British trait - very ugly.

Its similar to the person driving a nice car - the envious are ‘I cannot have that, but I will make damn sure they cannot either’

Indeed. Look at the many threads on MN about the Motability scheme. The spite is overwhelming.

BIossomtoes · 19/08/2024 10:33

It’s very good news if every pensioner entitled to pension credit now claims it. The money has always been there.

PandoraSox · 19/08/2024 10:30

HowIrresponsible · 19/08/2024 10:21

You think millionaires should get pip?

It acts as a passport to other help for disabled people, so I don't really have a problem if that is happening tbh.

The PIP process is complex and very burdensome financially to administer. Adding means testing would make it even more expensive to administer. Unless the bar was set very low and only the poorest qualified, I doubt it would save much, if anything, to means test.

AboveBeyond3 · 19/08/2024 10:30

What’s clear is that there is a lot of envy masquerading as social conscience.

Its similar to the person driving a nice car - the envious are ‘I cannot have that, but I will make damn sure they cannot either’

It’s a nasty British trait - very ugly.

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