Can’t just be me who is sick of the moaning about the private school VAT and winter fuel payments

yet another example of why we should probably get rid of the private school
system entirely…

Ah right, one of those ‘individualists’ who basically has a comfy life and doesn’t want pay tax… got it…

In the Talk TV clip above

Who???

Yep I wonder how many prophecies in this thread came true And if it did put pressure on social care as predicted,
https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/money-matters/3479693-Changes-to-Pension-Credit

Who is this Charles Amos prat. Never heard of him before.

There is noone she can move in with. There is no room here for her my house is a 2 bed with 3 children having to share a room and tbh we don't get on and I'd rather gauge my eyes out then have to live with her.
My sister is in a very unstable relationship constantly moving in and out of the mans home and couldnt have her and my other sister is currently sofa surfing and has no where to have her because she doesn't have anywhere herself.

My mum didn't save for the future because she (naively) believed her and my father were life long and she gave her up her career to be a stay at home mum and raise us because that is what they both wanted, except my Dad then did one when she was in her 60s.

Housing benefit is the benefit claimed by pensioners for help with rent. The only time a pensioner would claim Universal credit is if they have a partner who is under state pension age. And local authority housing allowances went up in April.

It is a challenge, there is not much if an incentive for low to middle earners to be frugal and save, as they know the government will pick up the pieces.
But if they didn't, women would be disadvantaged more, as historically men were the higher earners, sometimes controlled the finances. My grandparents both had decent jobs, but my grandad drank and smoked away the lot, apart from small amounts that my grandma managed to hide away from her 'household allowance'. Through no fault of her own, she would have been in a mess if the government hadn't supported her after he passed away. My Dad gave her what he could once he started working, but that wouldn't have been enough to live on. But equally I get the frustration of hard working people, that they are having to clear up other people's messes.

Have you heard of Reading the thread before posting?

I was replying to the pp who was advocating no support for the feckless worker who goes into retirement with no additional pension, in their world, these people would get nothing.

Also HB has, in almost all cases been replaced by UC for new claimants, its been frozen for 4 years, recently increased but still below market rents.

Because the alternative is less acceptable in a civilised society. People will live their lives as they choose and be as frugal or extravagant as they wish. If they end up with no money and can't afford heat and food the welfare state has to provide it, or they will die.
The same as if someone has ten children and can't afford to keep them, the state will ensure those children have a roof over their heads and there is a subsistence income.
Government cuts have reduced the level of help to the bare minimun as it is, with charity picking up the slack, but the state can't withdraw all help on the basis of 'fairness'.
As much as that might grind your gears there is no viable alternative, as society cannot punish its less frugal citizens by allowing them to starve or freeze to death.

Have you heard of housing benefit? That is a benefit that pensioners claim for help towards their housing if they can't afford their rent. It is unlikely to cover all their housing costs unless they are on pension credit, but they would get a good proportion paid if only on 12k a year.

Missing a few meals wont pay their rent etc will it?

The SP is around 12k, outside of London, a one bed property could be 750 to 1000 per month in rent.

Leaving your feckless pensioner or workshy 50yo leaving on what and where?

Even your hard working person who saves a modest pension, lets say £500 a month (around 150k pot and an annuity) will be left with SFA to live on unless they are in their own home but even then, it wont be life of luxury, they get no support what so ever.

Some of these posts are pure poverty porn. Like a holiday to North Korea, or watching an episode of Benefits Britain.

They smack of a Monty Python sketch, ‘When I were a lad we used to live in’t shoebox in’t middle o’t road…’ etc

All to make a point.

There are not going to starve though are they?
Missing a few meals doesn’t lead to starvation. Yes I am serious.

Again, these are not people who have had to work full time until they are 71 before claiming a state pension. What happens when the majority of people decide to stop working at say 50?
Should the tax payer pay for all their rent? Council tax? Prescriptions? Heating? Food?

Because the alternative is having elderly people starving or homeless, and having octogenarians routinely dying of poverty is poor optics for a developed country...

Ok 2 senecios.
2 people both able bodied.
One works their entire working life and chose to make sacrifices so as to pay into a private pension. The other does not.
Why should the one who chose to spend, spend spend and not save be rewarded?
Trust me there are many people who have not worked hard. Yet they are entitled to many things which others who have not had more than them aren’t.
Getting to live for free or very little by having your rent paid. Getting a reduction in council tax. Receiving money towards your fuel bills.
How on earth is that acceptable?

These are sweeping generalisations.

Equally, some of the best kids I’ve met have come from wealthy backgrounds, where their parents were well aware of the advantages they had been given. They were excellent young people as a result, because they had been taught.

Your experiences, and mine.

Some of the most F’d up people I’ve ever met were the product of boarding schools and wealth.
I do wonder what it is about wealthy people that make them think that outsourcing their children to institutions is okay. Particularly when they have the resources to look after their children themselves, well, with help, at home.

Most children in state and private sector are kind and helpful to others. I don't think we can say the 20% in private school in sixth form are worse or better in terms of empathy. Most societies end up with some kind of rankings - Indian caste system, in communist china under the cultural revolution times they tried to send the children of the intelligensia to work as refuse workers in the countryside to try to eradicate children being like parents but it tends not to work. The UK compared to many nations has fairly good chances for all which is perhaps why we have 18m more people here than when I was born, record immigration and are crammed to the rafters with hardly any housing.

I haven't seen any more details since last month's Technical Note - assets.publishing.service.gov.uk/media/66a7a1bdce1fd0da7b592eb6/Technical_Note_-_DIGITAL.pdf

‘And we see the consequences everyday - often in the press, with poorly raised children becoming poorly behaved adults.’

indeed. Many children, brought up in privilege lack empathy, are arrogant and rude, taking that air of superiority from their private school or worse, boarding school, into the real world as adults.

There are staff shortages because the working conditions are shockingly bad, regardless of a pension collectable in 40 plus years, salaries are poor too.
I'm not sure you can making such sweeping statements in regard to poverty in retirement without something to back it up? it would all depend on their salary, years in the the public sector and if they were renting or mortgage free.

I support higher pay for teachers and NHS staff, not longer hols or more WFH, i don't think any poster has called more of these have they?

VAT on fees? i'd be more sceptical of its worth if sooooooo many obviously v well posters didn't moan so much.

WFA ? i was in support of this policy until i saw the net gain, around 800m, v small reward for an awful lot of political pain, also the amounts people, even on pc are expected to live off are very low.

As i said, a better way is to reduce energy unit pricing.

Thank you for the link - super interesting! One thing to note though is that there is NO open defined benefit pension in the private sector. It is considered unaffordable. So the value which included inflation link and CPI link is huge.

@SugarandSpiceandAllThingsNaice I think you are right with regards to it being a lot of women. I don’t have a minimum required service for my public sector pension - but different sectors may be different?

I would only argue that women are almost always the worst off financially, in all groups - across socioeconomic levels. Public or private, women take on childcare and elder care responsibilities- and suffer financially for it.

in any case, someone now on state pension only is probably not an ex public sector employee….

hah you’d be shocked at how many female OAPs were indeed former public servants but due to social pressures forcing them to become SAHMs and then also forced stop work in their early 50s due to social pressures again forcing them to care for elderly parents/older husband, …never got the full 25yrs or more minimum years of service to qualify for a public sector pension.