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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

To be sad that she thinks I’m a bad boss?

37 replies

Worstbossever · 16/08/2024 21:05

I’ve been debating typing this as I’m not really sure what I’m hoping for, really. The short version is that I have a team member who clearly thinks I am a terrible boss. She is underperforming and difficult, but she’s also having a terrible time in her personal life. I’ve tried hard to be accommodating with those issues, as they are genuine, but it’s been going on for over a year now and I’m just fed up.

To avoid drip-feeding, I’ve also been a bit at fault because I’ve taken too long to handle this, made a few too many allowances and let some stuff slide that probably shouldn’t be let slide. And now my boss is on my case to sort it out, as I’m at risk of under-performing if I can’t get her to do her work. So I suppose I’ve been inconsistent and now I’m being firmer and that could be confusing.

Some examples of her behaviour:

  • Routinely missing deadlines
  • Not sharing documents with the right people, or holding conversations in the wrong channels which mean that important voices are excluded and can’t have their say
  • not updating the team tracker
  • prioritising ‘easy’ tactical stuff over more difficult plans and strategic thinking
  • not prepping for meetings so they take longer while she gets the info she needs
  • rolling her eyes and snapping in 1:1s

We are mostly remote with a few office days here and there, and I think she’s lonely. She spends AGES on calls just chatting, and she also takes ages to get to the point. When I try to be quite efficient, she feels rushed.

She expresses that she thinks I’m a bad manager - when we are having difficult conversations, she starts crying and saying that she’s never had a manager behave like this before. But when offered the chance to share reflections with my boss or informally with HR, she’s not taken them.

Other people have also had some problems with her, and I have no other problems with other team members. I am following all my HR processes and I feel like I am probably in the right (though all feedback is a gift and I’m keen to learn/do better). I also know that I’m battling all sorts of stereotypes and cultural norms about female bosses and likeability. And not everyone can like you.

BUT I’m really really sad that she feels this way about me. I know it’s silly and I know I need to get over it but I just want her to like me!

Help me get over myself

OP posts:
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jeaux90 · 17/08/2024 09:06

I run a team. And honestly it's not fair on the rest of them that you have left this poor performance go on.

You need to formalise it. Whatever your process is, get her on an improvement plan work with HR do do that.

Please OP, toughen up, managing people isn't about being liked, it helps but fairness and performance are more important.

You want people in your team feeling like they are doing their best work, not being hindered by a slacker.

Sorry if that's harsh, we can show empathy and be supportive but it's a fine line.

PonyPals · 17/08/2024 08:50

I understand you so much! I have been going through a similar thing. I have "inherited" a woman and she is just awful. I have never ever worked with anyone who is so evil. I am working on getting rid of her as she is toxic to the team. Took me awhile to see what she is like as she is a huge gaslighter!

DrinkUpBabyDown · 17/08/2024 08:34

She sounds awful, obviously. And you're not unfeasible you feel how you feel. Most people want to be liked and it's hard feeling like you're not. I've line managed slightly tricky people and had a sinking feeling when months have gone by and I realise I should have done things differently and it's not a nice feeling.
I do, however, agree with the pp who said this doesn't belong on Mumsnet. It doesn't really matter whether it's identifiable or not.

soupfiend · 17/08/2024 07:37

This happens where I work OP, particularly the bit where we as managers let things slide simply because we're also too busy to put a formal action plan together

Start from now, you just put together a formal plan, of tasks expected within reasonable timescales

If she isnt able to manage it, and you have made any reasonable adjustments agreed by HR or OH then its down capability or managed move out.

And unfortunately, I find myself putting things in peoples diaries, which essentially is micromanaging, its not my style but as a manger you sometimes have to adapt according to the worker. If she doesnt do those things, why, what is she doing instead (chatting around the office, procrastinating, avoiding) and then that feeds into the evidence about what she is able to manage.

Wontletmeusemynormalname · 17/08/2024 00:09

Op, she's taking the piss out of you, to be blunt. I wonder if you'd have the same drama if you put her on a performance plan and rrequested she's in the office more (dependant on contract conditions).

You can of course be empathetic, most of us humans are. Refer her to occ health. I fell foul of this once and it nearly got me sacked. There's no harm, as a manager, to refer to HR for them to escalate. That's what they are there for.

HappiestSleeping · 16/08/2024 23:58

Worstbossever · 16/08/2024 21:40

I do feel a bit manipulated, yes! A lot of
crying. She’s had such a hard time and my heart goes out to her, but it’s like she has no control over her emotions, and the slightest challenge or scrutiny on her work and she starts to cry.

Eg today, I needed to get a straight answer on something and she just kept going round the houses, and when I said, look, I just need to know x, she started to cry. Then asked me if I was ok because I wasn’t smiley and cheerful.

I‘ve not seen other people critique her so I can’t say, but she does seem to have history with another role, which I only found out about after she started.

Then asked me if I was ok because I wasn’t smiley and cheerful.

Presumably, your answer to this was along the lines of "no, not really. There are a number of areas where you need to improve. I've tried being nice about it, but that isn't working. Maybe in trying to be nice, I haven't been clear enough about what you need to do. I will resolve that now...."

introverteccentric · 16/08/2024 23:32

Worstbossever · 16/08/2024 21:05

I’ve been debating typing this as I’m not really sure what I’m hoping for, really. The short version is that I have a team member who clearly thinks I am a terrible boss. She is underperforming and difficult, but she’s also having a terrible time in her personal life. I’ve tried hard to be accommodating with those issues, as they are genuine, but it’s been going on for over a year now and I’m just fed up.

To avoid drip-feeding, I’ve also been a bit at fault because I’ve taken too long to handle this, made a few too many allowances and let some stuff slide that probably shouldn’t be let slide. And now my boss is on my case to sort it out, as I’m at risk of under-performing if I can’t get her to do her work. So I suppose I’ve been inconsistent and now I’m being firmer and that could be confusing.

Some examples of her behaviour:

  • Routinely missing deadlines
  • Not sharing documents with the right people, or holding conversations in the wrong channels which mean that important voices are excluded and can’t have their say
  • not updating the team tracker
  • prioritising ‘easy’ tactical stuff over more difficult plans and strategic thinking
  • not prepping for meetings so they take longer while she gets the info she needs
  • rolling her eyes and snapping in 1:1s

We are mostly remote with a few office days here and there, and I think she’s lonely. She spends AGES on calls just chatting, and she also takes ages to get to the point. When I try to be quite efficient, she feels rushed.

She expresses that she thinks I’m a bad manager - when we are having difficult conversations, she starts crying and saying that she’s never had a manager behave like this before. But when offered the chance to share reflections with my boss or informally with HR, she’s not taken them.

Other people have also had some problems with her, and I have no other problems with other team members. I am following all my HR processes and I feel like I am probably in the right (though all feedback is a gift and I’m keen to learn/do better). I also know that I’m battling all sorts of stereotypes and cultural norms about female bosses and likeability. And not everyone can like you.

BUT I’m really really sad that she feels this way about me. I know it’s silly and I know I need to get over it but I just want her to like me!

Help me get over myself

I'm an operations manager and when working my way up the need to be liked was strong, I gave leeway when I shouldn't have & let people get away with so much, now I'm much firmer and follow process better, I have found I get more respect, do people like me more, perhaps not, but I treat all my team fairly, being in charge is vey different to bring liked.

Worstbossever · 16/08/2024 23:13

@JabbaTheBeachHut i have asked my boss for advice but then i thought I’d ask others too. I’ve been careful not to share any individually identifying factors, including where we work or the type of work we do. It could be any type of role, and could be any person.

I’ve read threads before that sound similar to my own situation - I think that’s the joy of this website, there are people facing similar challenges to you.

However, if she did stumble on this and recognised herself, I hope she’d see that I am trying hard to be the best, supportive boss that I can be, while still working to do my job well.

OP posts:
OhcantthInkofaname · 16/08/2024 22:50

I think you need to schedule an appointment with HR involved. She needs to understand that your criteria for her doing her job is not a bad thing. I think she's manipulative. If she's not doing her job she needs to go.

Nsky62 · 16/08/2024 22:46

She basically needs a job, she’s more able for, you are not unreasonable

NAndJIsLockingDown · 16/08/2024 22:45

She needs to be put on a PIP - zero excuses for not performing at 100% regardless of what might be going on in an employee's personal life.

JabbaTheBeachHut · 16/08/2024 22:42

Worstbossever · 16/08/2024 22:33

@JabbaTheBeachHut an interesting perspective, thank you. I don’t agree that this is just a parenting website though - there are work threads, and it’s (mostly) a collection of women talking about issues that affect them. As a female leader, I’m aware of these stereotypes and I’m calling out my own vulnerability in that they do affect me - I want to stop feeling like this and I’d like some advice.

So surely you ask your line manager for advice/training?

How would you feel if you recognised yourself on a public internet forum, because your manager was discussing you?

Worstbossever · 16/08/2024 22:39

@Citrusandginger @cupcaske123 no improvement plan yet, I am currently getting evidence of where things have fallen down because I don’t have much formal stuff (having let some stuff slide before)

@Aquamarine1029 @SkaneTos HR have been brilliant and supportive. My boss equally supportive but is also a bit frustrated with me because she needs things from my team, was aware of the underperformance but now thinks I need to be tougher. She’s not wrong

@biscuitandcake yes, I worry about her and hope she can get help but I worry about overstepping by talking about it. She’s been offered lots of emotional support

OP posts:
Elizo · 16/08/2024 22:37

Unfortunately v often when you challenge people they go on the offensive. This has happened to me several times. I think it happens more often than not. Tell her you want to support her to do better but there are the targets she has to meet. You prob already did that. Then try to be thick skinned. She’ll probs leave if it is too uncomfortable

vincettenoir · 16/08/2024 22:34

It sounds like she is just difficult to LM. Perhaps in general or just perhaps at this point in her life.

I would just make sure you follow processes and seek any support you need in dealing with her. It won’t be forever. Hopefully she will either up her game or move on or something.

Worstbossever · 16/08/2024 22:33

@JabbaTheBeachHut an interesting perspective, thank you. I don’t agree that this is just a parenting website though - there are work threads, and it’s (mostly) a collection of women talking about issues that affect them. As a female leader, I’m aware of these stereotypes and I’m calling out my own vulnerability in that they do affect me - I want to stop feeling like this and I’d like some advice.

OP posts:
biscuitandcake · 16/08/2024 22:17

As an alternative perspective - If the terrible time she has had is affecting her working life to the extent that she cant do her work/is crying in meetings etc then it could be a mental health issue (burnout or PTSD). Which is terrible, but NOT your problem to solve, and not something you can solve by being "nice" really. Your job as a manager is to manage her work and address issues. If she is incapable of working, she needs to get herself to the GP and get herself signed of for stress for example, or seek treatment. Our work has counsellors within the medical unit we would be encouraged to speak to in that situation. But not speaking to them, or not doing anything about the issues would be the same as just not turning up to work because you broke your leg but also not going to the doctors or doing anything to fix the broken leg and expecting the manager to informally cover for you without so much as a doctors note.

Or she could just be bad at her job/manipulative. I don't know her or what the specific circumstances are... But sick leave exists for people who have genuine issues (for example if she was assaulted and had PTSD from that) you can't informally circumvent those by just letting her not work.

Renamed · 16/08/2024 22:14

It sounds like manipulation, and in a way suggesting you are managing her “badly” is a threat. Do you have mid- year reviews or anything like that? This could be an opportunity for you to hold the review jointly, either with your manager or a peer. So that when you go through performance issues, targets missed, suggestions for improvement, it is witnessed that you are doing it professionally, in line with pre- agreed targets, and not bullying. You could say that you need feedback on your performance in managing, to set it up.

Worstbossever · 16/08/2024 22:09

KerryBlues · 16/08/2024 21:47

But allowing her to let her work slide to the point she was causing issues for others isn’t having her back, op?
Your need for your direct reports to like you is preventing you managing effectively.

You aren’t wrong and I’ve been thinking about this a lot, I feel like I’ve let myself down

OP posts:
Worstbossever · 16/08/2024 22:08

MyKidsAreTooNoisy · 16/08/2024 21:21

I think like you sound like a good manager, but maybe I am too public sector 🤣. I think it’s very decent to try to be understanding and accommodate some personal isssues. But it can’t go on for ever and she has shown she’s not good enough. You have to be tougher now, which will mean either she ups her game, or you have to enact more formal performance management processes.

Cheers, I’m also public sector/local government (and I should say that this is why I want to sort it out, since it’s public money being spent)

OP posts:
Peckhampalace · 16/08/2024 22:07

Be careful you do everything by the book and get 1-2-1s, improvement requirements etc in writing with proper SMART objectives. I had a direct report similar to this and ended up with an informal bullying allegation (4 pages of things I had done to offend over 3 years) and then formal bullying allegations against my successor who had exactly the same problems.
It took a lot of time to deal with and was upsetting for all. If it happened again I would take stronger action sooner and get HR advice.

Aquamarine1029 · 16/08/2024 21:59

You've really got to toughen up because this woman is running roughshod over you.

You need to have a meeting about her performance and her behaviour, giving her a time period in which you expect to see significant improvement. Document everything. If she doesn't make the improvements necessary, you need to start formal proceedings. One bad employee can poison the whole bunch, and if I were one of her colleagues, I would be really fed up with her always taking the piss.

To add, every time she rolls her eyes or does anything else so blatantly disrespectful, you need to address it right there and then. Every single time.

ManyMaybes · 16/08/2024 21:58

Ah the curse of the underperforming underling. So then your job just becomes trying to get her job done and blamed for both jobs going tits up. It sounds to me like she needs to find a more suitable job that she can perform in.

JabbaTheBeachHut · 16/08/2024 21:55

These threads really make me cringe and I think they make women in management look very unprofessional, when they turn to a public parenting website for advice on how to do their job.

But more importantly, if this employee stumbles across this thread and recognises herself, you'll have proven her right.

SkaneTos · 16/08/2024 21:52

I have never been the boss of anybody, so I don't know anything about it, but OP, can you get support about this from someone? Can your boss help you in the situation? Or someone else?

I hope it will all work out, OP!

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