To think having an indoor cat is cruel?

Well, I personally disagree completely with any kind of caged or "tanked" animal. It's cruel imo. I wouldn't get a dog and not take it outside either, because that would also be incredibly cruel.

No one can force you to be a decent person, that’s on you 🙂

Says the person who upthread 'hoped' a dog would get to someone's garden and kill their cat. (Your post deleted by MN).

Your sense of decency is different to mine.

Whats that got to do with anything? Cats are allowed to roam wherever they like. No point bringing whataboutery into it as the sort of dirty people who keep snakes and lizards arent going to let them out.

I think a lot depends on the cat. My boy was happy enough pottering around in our cat proofed garden but I know some wouldn't. After years of knowing he was safe I couldn't bear to have a roaming cat again, I would worry too much because there's too many arseholes out there who would hurt a cat. It does make it harder to adopt (Battersea is a definite no) but some smaller rescues are happy to rehome to somewhere with an enclosed garden.

@cattery if you feel like that about cats. Would you not say the same for dogs? What about any other pets - caged birds, rodents, rabbits? Animals in tanks - snakes, lizards? Have you had any of these types of pets?

To lead a full life cats need their freedom x

You sounds as though you'd be better off with no neighbours. It's not just cats that impact enjoyment 🙄. My neighbours kid has a basketball hoop. If I sit in my garden all I can hear is the thud, thud thud of his fucking basketball. Another neighbour has a dog that yaps constantly. Another one has a baby that screams all the time. All of these things impact my enjoyment far more than a neighbours cat but there's nothing I can do as much as I fantasise about bursting the ball or handing the dog to the RSPCA.

I'd much rather have @Grumpyoldpersonwithcats as my neighbour than someone like you.

I do understand, far better than you, thank you ☺️

But they shouldn’t be able to ‘roam if they want to’. That’s literally your opinion. Why should they be able to? Because you say so? Because of the outdated ‘cats are easy, low maintenance pets where you can just let them piss off outside to fend for themselves ’ attitude?

Ideally, all animals should be free to wander the world, but that isn’t the case due to the environment humans have created. It’s a largely urban and hostile environment that is proven to be dangerous to cats, therefore it’s in the cats best interests to keep it in a safe environment (the home, a secure garden, a catio) that has been tailored to be suited to their needs and mitigates so many risks.

This literally all comes back to you and your holier than thou ‘well my cats have always been fine’ attitude. The world is larger and scarier than your neighbourhood and you need to accept that. I don’t think we will ever agree, but you can do away with the patronising “no you don’t understand attitude”. I didn’t train for over two years, plus 10+ years of practical work experience to be told by an entitled stranger on the internet that I don’t understand cats 😂 it’s like arguing with a brick wall!

@Dreamskies
You say that other people's cats are impacting your life daily and coming into your property and killing your pets.
The instant solution to this is to get your own cat that you let outdoors. I can assure you that no other cat will be going into your house and killing your pets if your cat lives there, and once your cat has established its territory in your garden, other cat visitors won't be welcome, especially if you get a feisty one that likes a good yowl and the odd fight with its neighbours.

Not at all. Many people have changed their attitudes over the years, there’s a lot of people in the UK now who don’t believe outdoor cats are ok.

I’ve already stated that there’s always going to be people who don’t care about anyone or anything other than themselves, but it’s still worth pointing out that there’s no justification for outdoor cats, as some people will actually learn from it.

I’m not unreasonable to want to enjoy my property without you impacting it. Don’t be ridiculous.

You can remove yourself from a pub, but you home is your home, pretty difficult to leave. Look at all the problem neighbour threads on here, it can have a huge impact on people’s lives. It just that you don’t care - and I understand that. No one can force you to be a decent person, that’s on you 🙂

You can feel whatever you like, I guess. It's a free world.

You won't be changing my mind though, so it's probably a bit of a waste of your time and energy.

I highly doubt that every single person in a three mile radius of you has a cat, sorry. Plus your individual circumstances don’t apply to everyone else, funnily enough.

I feel sorry for the wildlife in your neighbourhood.

I've read all the comments on this thread and have come to the conclusion that you are bonkers.

No, you don’t understand.

I make no claims for anyone else and their pets.

In principle cats should be able to roam if they want to- if you can’t provide that in a way such that the probability of harm is minimal (ie there is greater benefit to the cat than there is risk to the cat) then don’t have one.

unless you’re privileged like me and have miraculously only had one cat run over, don’t get a cat”

Yes that’s it- owning a pet is a privilege. If you can’t take care of it in the way that is best for it then you don’t get one.

It’s natural for a cat to explore and hunt (however little you like this) come back for food, shelter and some attention if and when it feels like gracing you with its presence! I do feel sorry for indoor cats as I think it goes against cats’ natures to be kept inside all the time.

Yep, exactly.

I don't feel remotely guilty about doing what's best for my cats' health. Some people on here seem to think the whole world needs to abide by their own moral code for some reason

It’s really sad how many people use the lack of legal control to try to clear their conscience.

I'm not. My conscience is clear thank you. I've simply stated the legal situation to point out that you are being unreasonable.

I'd rather people didn't smoke while sitting at outside restaurant or pub tables, but they are allowed to so I don't wang on about it all day.

It's the law in Australia - cats have to be kept on your property.

I think the same law here would go down like a lead balloon though!

Is that actually real? I read that on Twitter I thought it was a joke 🤣

Considering all my neighbours also have cats who go outside, I really can't bring myself to feel bad about it - you can keep banging on about it all you like though.

I think one of the main issues is that you don't know whether a cat will be happy indoors (or not) until they're adults. And even then, it can depend on the environment and how safe it is.

I've known of feral cats who settle indoors quite happily, and previously inside cats who have then become desperate to escape - cats are rarely logical!

We got all ours with the intention of keeping them in and while two would be absolutely fine inside, the other isn't - even though they're all provided with the same stimulation etc.

So it's all very well saying "don't get them if you can't keep them happy" but you just don't know how your cat will be long-term. Very few people are going to give their cats away or put them to sleep if roaming is an option.

It’s really sad how many people use the lack of legal control to try to clear their conscience. You wouldn’t look favourably on the smoking next to kids example made earlier, this is no different. It’s no wonder we need so many laws when people are so unable to regulate their own behaviour. Really sad.

You are prioritising one animal’s well-being over and above the hundreds, if not thousands of animals that it will kill over its lifetime, above your neighbours pets and their right to an enjoyable life, and above your neighbours right to enjoy their property without it being full of shit and piss that’s your responsibility. It still isn’t justified.

This.
i go in and out my front and back door with no worry about the cats going out.
they have the garden but neither wants to go in that! They have had harnesses before the garden was done, the one was happy to go out in the garden on it, the other wanted no part in it.

my old outdoor boys were constantly attacked, i used to keep them in at night to stop this.

my old boys never bought anything in, in-fact were terrified by small animals. ( had 2 house bunnies and exotics animals, never had any fear of them attacking them).

i know one of my young girls now would be a great hunter. I could not have any small pets with her around as i would not trust her.
my house is filled with stuff. If they were not happy you could tell.