AIBU to shop not adopt?

They will - only if the dog's history is known (usually if it's been surrendered by a family for reasons not connected to behaviour) or if it's a puppy.

They are understandably unwilling to rehome to families with primary aged children if the dog's provenance is unknown.

I'm a cat person with 5 rescues, but I think you're doing the right thing. Taking on a pet has to work for the people as well as the pet, and you've found that buying from a reputable breeder is the way that works for you.

And yes, rescues are brilliant, but two of my five have health needs (CKD and wobbly cat respectively), one is an ex feral who needs careful handling, and one is needy and anxious. It's taken a lot of work. You're being sensible and responsible.

The rescues in my area make it impossible to get a dog.

We have one kid under 12. That’s a no
We have a dog and cat. Two nos.
We don’t have our 3/4 of an acre fenced. Another no.

That we’re a family who has someone home 24/7, keep our pets until they cross the Rainbow Bridge, and love them dearly doesn’t matter in the slightest.

So, reputable breeders it is.

Sounds like the right decision. We bought our rare breed from abroad but support rescue organisations and have had rescues in the past.

Completely untrue that rescue dogs will have guaranteed behavioural issues. Grew up with two dogs, one rescued after being appallingly treated as a puppy, and one pedigree from a breeder. The rescue dog was far more placid and gentle in temperament, especially with us kids. (The rescue dog was also immensely more greedy and single-minded in her pursuit of food... there was no room left over for any aggression.)

I’d always shop rather than adopt when it comes to a dog. A lot of damage can be done to a dog in a short span of time and frankly why would I take that risk when I have children or even for my own sake.

Especially wouldn’t have a rescue street dog that’s been flown in either.

Wouldn’t buy my children second hand shoes so certainly wouldn’t have a second hand dog with a unknown start to life that could turn at the drop of a penny 🤷🏻‍♀️ least if you’ve got a good bred pup from a good place if it ends up damaged that’s your fault not because it was beaten or neglected for months by its previous owner or whatever.

I picked up both my puppies at 11.5 weeks and they have been fine. The extra time with the dam without litter mates was nice for them.

I didn't think rescue centres considered people with young DC for a dog adoption.

@WiddlinDiddlin Its so refreshing to see someone talking complete sense on a thread about dogs.

Puppies can't be checked for hip dysplasia as they haven't finished their development. Parents should have been given hip scores, the lower the better. All four hips of the parents of my young Labrador were in low single figures. Elbow dysplasia scores should all be zero. Then genetic testing for a whole suite of nasty inherited conditions.

I am on my fourth dog, they have all been bought as baby puppies from reputable breeders by personal recommendation.

Rescue is not best. The best is every single puppy going to its lifelong home from its natal home and staying there. Don't be made to feel ashamed by your decision. And I was a volunteer with a Labrador rescue organisation for some years.

Breeding should be done to better the breed, to improve on whats there.

This means that a breeder should be showing their dogs to others to get an unbiased opinion on conformation and temperament and adherence to breed standard in some way - working competition or showing of some sort.

They should be seeking a stud dog that improves on their bitch in any area she is lacking.

The chances, out of all the available dogs in the country, that the one dog that is perfect for their bitch, is their own... are incredibly low.

So breeder owning both mum and Dad AND not taking part in any sort of showing/working where an outside evaluation is done... is a red flag. This says we're potentially more interested in producing puppies than of the quality of those puppies.

Owning both parents is not a 100% 'definitely awful" thing given all the right health testing etc is done... but there are a lot of labradors in the world and we don't really need more mediocre ones!

For example in some breeds, rarer breeds, you might import or buy in a dog from lines you reallllly want to include with your own, in order to be certain of being able to use that dog over your own bitch in the future.

This is a gamble because he may grow up not to suit, or your bitch may grow up not to suit him... but its one breeders of rarer breeds do often take.

Not working or showing is for me a much bigger red flag - if you're not out there looking at what dogs are around, getting other peoples expert opinions on your stock, how DO you really know its worth breeding from, if the only opinion on the matter is your own, it will be biased.

People caring about the welfare of animals happened.

People are so judgy about dogs. Whether you bought a pup, got a rescue, what breed they are, how they are fed, your training method etc.etc.

I remember the days when you were offered a pup (a mongrel) from some bloke on a farm and you'd ask your Mum if you could have it. Then you'd have 15 happy years with it and it rarely had any health issues and it was never reactive or had separation anxiety. What the hell changed in those years? (And I'm saying that as someone who now owns a rescue pug with separation anxiety 😅)

No reputable breeder would let two puppies from the same litter go together. One of the biggest red flags of all, and any potential puppy owner would also know that if they'd done their research.

I kind of rescued my girl (my friend's dog got accidentally pregnant - she escaped while in heat - and she was part of that litter). I had her since she was 8 weeks and she was an absolute delight, the best girl ever (passed a couple of years ago at age 12).

Since then I've looked into getting another doggo from a rescue but we're not eligible as we're in a flat. My girl was perfectly happy in the flat, there's a park literally next to us and I wfh so plenty of time for walks etc. But it's a no.

I wanted to adopt an older dog or one at risk of being put to sleep, you would have thought living in a flat is preferable to that?! I do think rescue centres could be a bit more open minded. Two of the older dogs I applied for several months ago are still showing as available on the local rescue website. I could have given them a lovely life. So I get you OP, it's frustrating!

Enjoy your pup 😊

I'd never adopt a dog, and don't care what anyone else thinks about that.

There's no guarantee that a puppy won't have problems, however good your care and training is – but the risk is a lot lower.

I’m a big believer in adopt don’t shop, and do silently judge those who shop (usually). It sounds like you’ve made a real effort to adopt and it hasn’t worked out on this occasion. In my view it’s better to then shop, than to adopt a dog that ends up being given back because it doesn’t fit your family.

Do heed the advice given by PP in what to check for though. A friend had a nightmare with 2 lab puppies from a KC registered show breeder. Dogs turned out to have a congenital issue and had eye watering vet’s bills. Dogs died young. Breeder didn’t want to know.

your relative can shut up though, she’s made her point.

I have two dogs - one rescue, one from a breeder, and I think it's perfectly fine to shop, not adopt, provided it's from a genuinely responsible breeder, who home checks thoroughly, doesn't over breed, has the best interests of their dogs and the breed at heart, and offers lifetime support including taking dogs back if needed.

Yes, we have a huge issue with the amount of dogs needing rehomed in the UK, that needs addressed.

Yes, there are lots of irresponsible breeders out there contributing to it.

The responsible breeders are not the ones causing the problem. My pedigree dog is never going to be bred from, never going to end up in rescue, and neither are his siblings (breeder in lifelong contact). He is never going to contribute to the rescue dog problem.

It's irresponsible breeding and irresponsible ownership that are the problem, and it's unfair to lump those together with responsible breeder and owners just because they want a particular breed or didn't feel a rescue dog was right for them.

I may be a bit jaded here but I completely gave up on adopting a shelter cat because of the ridiculous hoops I was expected to jump through.

I had to submit a package of information to them which came to over 45 gig with videos of traffic on every road near my house within a half kilometre radius. I had to show a floor plan of my home. I had to share a plan of my work commitments over a period of weeks. I had to explain in detail what me and my partner do for a living. I had two home visits. I had to complete various psychometric assessments.

After about threee weeks I was told no because I “couldn’t guarantee safe traffic levels”.” That was the third such attempt I had made. The first one turned me down purely on the basis I live in London. They said they couldn’t “in all conscience” give a cat to someone living in a city. WTF?

I now have two lovely cats which I sourced from local advertising and friends.

I honestly feel quite strongly that the intransigence of animal rescues actually plays into the problem with breeders. I completely understand that thorough due diligence is needed but the bar for adoption is so unachievably high that almost no one is considered eligible. It’s so difficult to convince the people who run them that you are good enough for their animals and it puts a lot of loving and responsible pet owners off altogether.

I had forgotten,my GC other GP had a rescue older puppy, they were lied to about the breed. He was very aggressive, they had always had dogs since childhood. Then they got a private rescue. Told about the breed, but he became the size of a small horse. He wasn't nasty just too difficult to handle,he went back, and they waited for puppies of a specific breed. A friend of mine bought a lab at pedigree price from a pet shop. If I had known beforehand I would have warned her. He came with hip scores etc. had really bad arthritis,in spite of the insurance cost a fortune,hydro and aqua therapy, heavy duty steroids and painkillers,PTS very young. My DH best friend had a shepherd,hip scores pedigree price. His vet told him it was fine to breed from a year old bitch.....my vet disagreed. She was really aggressive,had to be locked away, when visitors came. I certainly wouldn't breed from a dog with that temperament anyway. Her hips also failed very young. When I bought my Phalene I had to drive 200 miles to be vetted by the breeder. We've had 3 dogs live to almost 18,him and the farm bred ones

Yep. Because reputable breeders will take any dog they've ever bred back at any time, regardless of age or circumstance. And make puppy owners sign a contract to say so. Purebred dogs in rescue do not come from reputable breeders.

It doesn't mean nothing. If people are truly buying a puppy responsibly, which means researching the breed thoroughly, looking into the best examples of the breed, meeting breeders and owners, visiting shows to see for themselves which are good examples of the breed and why, etc, then the KC affix allows people to identify dogs and their progeny easily, as well as their breeders and owners. I am well aware that disreputable breeders can KC regs some puppies, but that's not what I mean in this instance.

OP, the reason the breeder owning both the dam and the sire is a red flag, is that it's very unlikely that they would coincidentally own two best examples of the breed to put together. Usually, reputable breeders find the best possible match for their bitch to improve the breed, which means visiting a stud. In some cases, a breeder may import a stud to use on their own bitch, but this doesn't seem to be the case here.

In my opinion, the ONLY reason someone should breed a litter of puppies is if they are working to improve the breed. Anything else is solely to make money, which is wrong. As the breeder you are looking at doesn't show, I'd assume they have no interest in improving the breed, so would have to question what their motives are for breeding a litter of puppies that will not improve the breed.

Please ask for hip/elbow scores of the PARENTS if you’re getting a lab. I’d want to see proof of scores. Saying that, environment can be crucial for hip/elbows too: we currently have tons of lengths of carpet down for a dog recovering from surgery on an elbow with an issue that isn’t detectable via x rays.

I’d ignore people demanding that you adopt. It’s a personal decision, I might rescue a scruffy terrier in the future but so far, we’ve sourced puppies and I’ve never seen our breed puppies in rescue.

I'm going to speak in defense of the seemingly ridiculous rules rescues have, and this is from someone who has bought a puppy, having failed to find a suitable rescue) and also rescued multiple times (even from abroad).

Rescues are DESPERATE to not have a dog returned to them, for lots of reasons but mostly because it is a terrible and damaging thing for the dog to be passed from pillar to post. they know full well the factors that contribute to an adoption breaking down, they know full well that their dogs need dedicated, knowledgeable people who can be prudent about the challenges that will, inevitably, be faced in the first months (sometimes years) and that is why they have their rules.

many many years ago we adopted a rescue, our kids were dog savvy 5 ish and 7 ish. we were experienced owners. it was hard, really really hard, to divide my precious time between the children and the dog, he was a chewer, the kids toys and shoes got destroyed (easy to say keep them out the way, harder to actually do with small kids). he was boisterous, the kids were regularly knocked over. he pulled on walks, it was very difficult to walk the kids and him together, but the kids were too small to leave at home while i taught him how to walk nicely and recall successfully. these are just the tip of the iceberg of the challenges of having a (any) dog and children, as anyone who has done both knows. but OBVIOUSLY, a lot of people, would quickly get sick of living this way, and return the dog to the rescue. and that is why they have the rules about children. they know that people's tolerance for poor behavior and ability to dedicate time to training is limited when you have children. and it's much "easier" to hand back a rescue than it is a £2000 cute puppy you've paid for.

Our local FB page is FULL of lost and found dogs, practically every day, low fences and nervous unsettled dogs do not mix. some lost for weeks on end. a few have been killed on the roads,

Introducing a new dog to an existing pet can be a laborious and difficult process, and might never result in an easy, happy relaxed relationship between them, you just don't know, another key reason why adoptions can fail

i could go on but this is long

you have to see their point, frustrating though it is - they are working in the best interests of the dog, and they have seen it all 1000 times before, it is coming from a place of knowledge and experience.