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To think that people don’t use this mini roundabout correctly? (Diagram and picture)

233 replies

AndiOliversGlasses · 15/08/2024 16:46

This is on a regular route I drive and I am always approaching it from the angle seen in the photo, to turn right. My approach road is short so no time to build up any speed. As you can see, it is really a T junction of a smaller road in to a bigger one, but it has been configured with a mini roundabout.

Nine times out of 10 traffic coming from the right or the left doesn’t slow down, so even if a car coming from my right is not on the roundabout yet it will beep at me if I pull out and cause it to slow down. I know that the rule is give way to traffic coming from the right, but doesn’t that only apply to traffic already on the roundabout?

I can see that the problem with a mini one is that there is much less time that the car is actually “on” it, but surely everyone should be slowing down as they approach a roundabout?

At this one, usually the only way to get out is by waiting for a pedestrian to cross at the zebra and stop the traffic from the right that way.

AIBU to think that a mini roundabout is still a roundabout and the normal rules should apply? Or am I misunderstanding the rules?

To think that people don’t use this mini roundabout correctly? (Diagram and picture)
To think that people don’t use this mini roundabout correctly? (Diagram and picture)
OP posts:
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ATenShun · 16/08/2024 19:14

AndiOliversGlasses · 16/08/2024 18:48

To be fair @ATenShun (and thank you so much for your sensible posts in this thread) the Highway Code is clear that nobody ever has right of way, but the rules do create a system of priority. This video explains it quite well, at around 7:50 minutes . He’s clear that the vehicle on the roundabout has priority, as you say.

Yes prioritiy is probably the better word to describe it. And as Keir Twaddle says, a little common sense and taking the lead out of your right foot means everyone gets through the roundabout in a fair and quick fashion.

KeirSpoutsTwaddle · 16/08/2024 18:50

Thing is, people aren’t being asked to slam the brakes on. Just lift their foot off the accelerator. That’s all it takes.

AndiOliversGlasses · 16/08/2024 18:48

ATenShun · 16/08/2024 16:00

I read the OP differently.
''Nine times out of 10 traffic coming from the right or the left doesn’t slow down''
She says that vehicles are beeping her as they haven't slowed down on approach. In which case they are in the wrong, and should they T-Bone her, could find themselves on a driving without due care charge.

Once she has entered the roundabout she has right of way, any vehicle approaching should have adjusted their speed on approach to account for that.

To be fair @ATenShun (and thank you so much for your sensible posts in this thread) the Highway Code is clear that nobody ever has right of way, but the rules do create a system of priority. This video explains it quite well, at around 7:50 minutes . He’s clear that the vehicle on the roundabout has priority, as you say.

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https://youtu.be/KPh7C7kuYsw?si=qz9LDYb_v4YDj19g

OP posts:
AndiOliversGlasses · 16/08/2024 18:33

Kelly51 · 16/08/2024 15:52

@ATenShun
My point is that OP thinks she's right all of the time and everybody should be allowing her out and giving way to her even from her right, not every lorry driver is good, hence why we need to be aware and alert at all time, not make assumptions on other road users, this woman is clearly an idiot and shouldn't be on the road.
This OP despite being told multiple times she is in the wrong still assumes her way is the right way.

I’m tempted to report your very clear personal attack But actually I’m just standing back and laughing at your escalating frustration as you yell into empty space in the vain hope that I am going to say that I intend never to get behind the wheel again because you have shown me the error of my ways.

If you weren’t so keen to hurl abuse and assert your absolute right to be right you might have understood, like some other recent posters have, that I have never at any point suggested that pulling out in front of a vehicle without enough space is something that anyone could or should do. Neither do I do it, and I maintain that anyone who has time to beep and finger wag was never actually at risk of collision. My point has always been about the speed at which drivers are approaching the roundabout.

But, as someone upthread memorably said, many people just enjoy telling other people they are bad drivers.

OP posts:
KeirSpoutsTwaddle · 16/08/2024 18:12

What’s particularly important to note is how certain the ‘it’s fine to hurtle through without a pause’ drivers are, that everyone else is an idiot that doesn’t belong on the road. It’s a bad attitude.

Roads work better when people accommodate each other. They don’t work as well when people game the system to gain every 10sec advantage.

I was harassed by a car in a specific situation- can’t remember the exact details, but it involved risky overtaking. By the time we reached the next junction he’d lost all the distance he’d gained and I sailed past in the next lane. He ended up immediately behind me on the final stretch. He’d risked several of us with a risky manoeuvre for a very short lived advantage.

Mutual accommodation works better.

ATenShun · 16/08/2024 17:47

Kelly51 · 16/08/2024 16:52

But why would it not slow down to a reasonable speed on approach so that I don’t need to give way, as we can both cross the roundabout at our own reasonable speeds?
This is a nonsense from OP.
It's not needing to give way, she has to give way to the right if not already on roundabout.

No actually that is exactly how it should work. As I previously said at 20mph you cover 100m in under 11 seconds. So 25m (6 car lengths) in approx 2.5 seconds. Now I'd suggest if the cars approaching from the OP's right are doing 20mph at the junction they are going too fast and giving insufficient time to safely use that roundabout. Six car lengths should be sufficient space to join the flow of traffic going any direction.

If that is how you are interpreting roundabouts along with your lack of knowledge previously in the thread about entry and exit to a roundabout being junctions, I suggest it is you that is incorrect I'm afraid.

BernardBlacksBreakfastWine · 16/08/2024 17:06

I think some posters are overlooking the fact that a roundabout is supposed to ease the flow of traffic; it’s not meant to be like a t-junction, with one queue of traffic essentially waiting for a gap in a main stream of traffic.

You are supposed to slow down when you approach a roundabout, even if it’s clear. You need to check before entering.

What OP seems to be saying is that people routinely don’t check on this particular roundabout. They don’t slow down at all. That’s dangerous.

Yes, you have to give way to the right, but the assumption is that you are giving way to traffic moving at roundabout speed, not at 60mph. In the ideal scenario, this slowing down will allow the odd break in the traffic big enough for people from OP’s route to join the roundabout too. Hence the roundabout working to ease flow of traffic.

It’s about seeing the bigger picture, I guess. Yes, you can go screeching through a roundabout barely braking, safe in the knowledge that it’s your right of way. Or you could approach the roundabout with caution, and be the vehicle that finally gives enough breathing space for the car from the minor route to enter the roundabout.

It must be frustrating to have to try to break into a race track every day.

ChristmasFluff · 16/08/2024 17:01

The mini-roundabout will have replaced a T-junction to give the joining road users more chance to pull out, but to still give the main road some priority and keep the main road moving.

If it is a T-junction, a driver from the joining road has to wait until there is a break in the traffic to pull out onto the main road.

If it is a mini roundabaout, they can pull out both when there is a break in the traffic, and also when a car coming from the left is indicating right as it will have priority over traffic coming from the right, and those cars will slow/stop.

So OP, those are the two times when you can safely enter the mini-roundabout without being beeped - when there;s a break in traffic to your right, or when a car from your left enters the mini-roundabout indicating right and the car from the right stops for it.

And of course the mini-roundabout makes it many times easier for those turning right from the joining road.

Kelly51 · 16/08/2024 16:52

But why would it not slow down to a reasonable speed on approach so that I don’t need to give way, as we can both cross the roundabout at our own reasonable speeds?
This is a nonsense from OP.
It's not needing to give way, she has to give way to the right if not already on roundabout.

Kelly51 · 16/08/2024 16:50

You don't need to keep repeating, I have not once referred to vehicles already on the roundabout, I'm referring to OP stating that cars to her right should be allowing her out/slowing to allow her to pull out, clearly if she's already in the roundabout she has right of way.

ATenShun · 16/08/2024 16:33

This is actually quite an interesting site to play around and see how traffic should behave. I adjusted the speed to 30kmh and traffic volume to 1000 vehicles an hour. Although it is German and they are all on the wrong side of the road. It gives a good indication of how we should slow on the approach to the roundabout.

https://www.traffic-simulation.de/roundabout.html

Microsimulation of Traffic Flow: Roundabout

https://www.traffic-simulation.de/roundabout.html

ATenShun · 16/08/2024 16:17

Kelly51 · 16/08/2024 16:09

@ATenShun
If the traffic coming from OPs right has checked those coming towards them are not continuing around then they have the right of way to continue on, if they do hit OP; she is at fault as she has pulled out into oncoming traffic without checking it is safe to do so. It would be the same if it was a T junction, OP would again be at fault, those on a main road are not obliged to slow for those coming from side roads, so both of OPs scenarios of it's like a T junction or roundabout, she would be found at fault.
OP is the dangerous driver.

Using your theory of remaining at the speed of the road. I can name around 6 roundabouts on our local bypass I could in theory enter at 60mph as could the driver joining at the 90 degree position. Would that give either of us sufficient time to view, anticipate and adjust our speed? Of course not!

ATenShun · 16/08/2024 16:13

Kelly51 · 16/08/2024 16:09

@ATenShun
If the traffic coming from OPs right has checked those coming towards them are not continuing around then they have the right of way to continue on, if they do hit OP; she is at fault as she has pulled out into oncoming traffic without checking it is safe to do so. It would be the same if it was a T junction, OP would again be at fault, those on a main road are not obliged to slow for those coming from side roads, so both of OPs scenarios of it's like a T junction or roundabout, she would be found at fault.
OP is the dangerous driver.

As stated before, the entry to a roundabout is a junction. If you have not adjusted your speed correctly on approach to that junction to account for vehicles having joined in front of you, then you are in the wrong.

Don't believe me, go visit your local police station and ask to speak to a traffic officer.

Kelly51 · 16/08/2024 16:09

@ATenShun
If the traffic coming from OPs right has checked those coming towards them are not continuing around then they have the right of way to continue on, if they do hit OP; she is at fault as she has pulled out into oncoming traffic without checking it is safe to do so. It would be the same if it was a T junction, OP would again be at fault, those on a main road are not obliged to slow for those coming from side roads, so both of OPs scenarios of it's like a T junction or roundabout, she would be found at fault.
OP is the dangerous driver.

ATenShun · 16/08/2024 16:00

Kelly51 · 16/08/2024 15:52

@ATenShun
My point is that OP thinks she's right all of the time and everybody should be allowing her out and giving way to her even from her right, not every lorry driver is good, hence why we need to be aware and alert at all time, not make assumptions on other road users, this woman is clearly an idiot and shouldn't be on the road.
This OP despite being told multiple times she is in the wrong still assumes her way is the right way.

I read the OP differently.
''Nine times out of 10 traffic coming from the right or the left doesn’t slow down''
She says that vehicles are beeping her as they haven't slowed down on approach. In which case they are in the wrong, and should they T-Bone her, could find themselves on a driving without due care charge.

Once she has entered the roundabout she has right of way, any vehicle approaching should have adjusted their speed on approach to account for that.

Kelly51 · 16/08/2024 15:52

@ATenShun
My point is that OP thinks she's right all of the time and everybody should be allowing her out and giving way to her even from her right, not every lorry driver is good, hence why we need to be aware and alert at all time, not make assumptions on other road users, this woman is clearly an idiot and shouldn't be on the road.
This OP despite being told multiple times she is in the wrong still assumes her way is the right way.

ATenShun · 16/08/2024 15:05

KeirSpoutsTwaddle · 16/08/2024 15:01

Are you saying that the approaching car should assume she may pull out and be able to adjust if she does?

Yes. That's how we all should be driving in every situation. As I stated earlier, my driving started on motorbikes. To stay safe we rode in the assumption that every other road user was out to kill us so made ourselves less vulnerable by increasing our visibility by road position and speed.

Also as I say in my previous post, if the OP has entered the roundabout ( gone beyond the give way markings), she has entered the roundabout and has priority over vehicles joining from any direction.

KeirSpoutsTwaddle · 16/08/2024 15:01

ATenShun · 16/08/2024 14:55

Also remember that any vehicle actually on the roundabout has priority over anyone joining. That includes those coming from the right. If the OP has started her manouver and has entered the roundabout before the car from the right has reached the roundabout junction she has priority.

Are you saying that the approaching car should assume she may pull out and be able to adjust if she does?

DeclansAFeckingDream · 16/08/2024 14:58

Dear god. This is so bloody worrying that people like you, who absolutely will not be wrong (even though you are), are out and about on our roads.

ATenShun · 16/08/2024 14:55

Also remember that any vehicle actually on the roundabout has priority over anyone joining. That includes those coming from the right. If the OP has started her manouver and has entered the roundabout before the car from the right has reached the roundabout junction she has priority.

CandyLeBonBon · 16/08/2024 14:52

I have a similar roundabout near me and drivers like you are so bloody dangerous op. Just accept that you're wrong.

ATenShun · 16/08/2024 14:49

Kelly51 · 16/08/2024 07:44

What about if a 40 tonne lorry is coming from your right, they can see clearly there is nobody to slow for , you pull out because you think they should slow down, you are now dead and have caused a catastrophic rta.
Do you still think you shouldn't give way?

The driver of the 40 tonne lorry if he is any good is driving defensively. He knows that his extra height gives him vision beyond that of a car driver. With that in mind he slows down on the approach to the roundabout, to again assess the situation and allow others to see and react to him.

Look at distance travelled at 20mph. With a direct line of site a car will cover 100 metres in 11 seconds.

The stopping distance for a car in dry conditions at 20mph is 3 car lengths or 12 metres, which at 20mph takes only ONE SECOND. Now imagine a bicycle pulling out that junction to turn right, which doesn't have the acceleration of a car. Could you safely stop should he/she join the carriageway?

ManchesterLu · 16/08/2024 11:57

AndiOliversGlasses · 15/08/2024 17:03

OK So what about the cars coming from the left. Should they not be giving way to me? (They don’t).

They should. But you can't control what other people do, you can just make sure that YOU do the right thing. Which is give way to the right. Always.

Catsmere · 16/08/2024 10:15

Read all the thread and I'm left wondering "What's your flaming hurry, OP? Why do you have to dash out in front of cars approaching on your right?"

Kaaraa · 16/08/2024 10:00

AndiOliversGlasses · 16/08/2024 09:49

I have a driving licence. Not a “drivers’ license”.

That's what you take from that post? Jeez! Everything said in that post is correct, so what if they referred to the piece of paper slightly different to how you do.