Page 31 | Witholding my rent AIBU

littledragon99 · 2024-08-15T12:29:16+00:00

I'm a woman in my late 40s, living in a 3-bed Victorian terrace in West London, where I pay £1,200 a month with all bills included. I signed an AST in May. I work in recruitment and DJ on the side. Despite being skilled in my job, financial difficulties have arisen following my mother’s death, and I've struggled with timely rent payments. I’m currently in therapy to manage my depression. Recently, my landlady has begun Airbnb-ing the living room, removing the communal space I was paying for. Given this change, I believe the £1,200 rent is no longer justified. Additionally, she inappropriately contacted my boss, (my boss was my reference) about paying rent directly and has threatened eviction. I’ve consulted Citizens Advice and suspect my deposit wasn’t placed in a Tenancy Deposit Scheme (TDS), which may breach legal requirements. Due to these issues, I’ve withheld my rent since August 1st and am prepared to take further action if needed.

GoodLordyTheExcusesWeMakeForThem · 15/08/2024 14:32

Sarvanga24 · 15/08/2024 13:42

Maybe lodgers not paying their bills puts HER anxiety levels through the roof?

As others have said, you need to separate issues here. If you feel your rent is unfair then attempt to re-negotiate it and if (when LOL) unsuccessful then move out and find somewhere at a cost you do feel is fair. Obviously references will be an issue ...

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I completely disagree. She doesnt have to move anywhere. She can take the LL to court for non protection of a tenancy deposit and possibly force the LL to need to sell the house to pay her the resulting fines. Thereby giving the op plenty of money to pay months of rent upfront and not need references. I guess it all depends on the ability of the op to be her own advocate and fight for her own mental health and wellbeing of being able yo enjoy get home without fear of harassment, which she is entitled to do and the LL currently isn't allowing by renting out to god only knows who whenever she feels like it. I know what i would do, because i did it. Don't be a LL if you're too lazy to know the law surrounding it because it can be a very costly mistake

Original poster

littledragon99 · 15/08/2024 14:30

StickItInTheFamilyAlbum · 15/08/2024 14:29

OP, does your AST specify a duration, like 6 months or longer?

It says this:

I signed the contract on 10/3/24, so 5 months ago, 6 months in September

EXPIRY OF THE TENANCY
At the end of the fixed term granted by this Tenancy, the Tenant shall return the Property and the Contents to the Landlord in the condition
required by this agreement
If the Landlord allows the Tenant to remain in the Property after the Term has expired then a statutory periodic tenancy shall arise on a monthly
basis. To end the periodic tenancy, the Tenant shall give the Landlord at least one month’s notice in writing. The notice must end on the day before
the rent is due
The Landlord has the right to recover possession of the Property if:
(a) the Tenancy has come to an end;
(b) the Landlord has given two months’ notice to the Tenant of the Landlord’s intention to recover possession of the Property; and
(c) at least six months have passed since the date of this agreement

OP posts:

Theweepywillow · 15/08/2024 14:30

Op she’s already talking eviction. There is no further action you can take. She however can evict, and I’d assume will.

id urge you to think fast, as you won’t get another rental, no landlord will take you on and your reference will be bad. You will be in temp accommodation with the council, a refuge or bnb.

i understand if you don’t have the money it’s hard, but you need to pay it. Or your problems are about to get a lot worse.

StickItInTheFamilyAlbum · 15/08/2024 14:29

OP, does your AST specify a duration, like 6 months or longer?

CasaBianca · 15/08/2024 14:28

GoodLordyTheExcusesWeMakeForThem · 15/08/2024 14:23

Ah then you cant use removal of them as a valid reason to withold rent, however the 8 week rule still stands. You can use this to force her hand regarding the airbnb a court would also be likely to look sympathetically on your situation given the worsening anxiety caused by this ‘venture’ of hers.

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Why are you giving OP false hope, « a court would also be likely to look sympathetically on your situation » do you really believe a court will be sympathetic with a tenant who has never paid rent on time and has then chosen to not pay??
As it stands we don’t even know that the deposit wasn’t protected, we just know that OP rents a room and is not paying her rent.

GoodLordyTheExcusesWeMakeForThem · 15/08/2024 14:25

littledragon99 · 15/08/2024 13:58

I have ADHD and often need to be reminded

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It’s actually irrelevant as long as she is never more than 8 weeks in arrears. For eviction purposes that is anyway

Cosyblankets · 15/08/2024 14:24

littledragon99 · 15/08/2024 14:16

Unfortunately no mention made of communal spaces in the AST

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Then there is your answer.
You rent your room
You do not rent the living room
Landlord owns the property and can do what they like. That is their right
If you don't like it you can move out. That is your right.

Theweepywillow · 15/08/2024 14:24

GoodLordyTheExcusesWeMakeForThem · 15/08/2024 14:23

Ah then you cant use removal of them as a valid reason to withold rent, however the 8 week rule still stands. You can use this to force her hand regarding the airbnb a court would also be likely to look sympathetically on your situation given the worsening anxiety caused by this ‘venture’ of hers.

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Don’t be ridiculous .

GoodLordyTheExcusesWeMakeForThem · 15/08/2024 14:23

littledragon99 · 15/08/2024 14:16

Unfortunately no mention made of communal spaces in the AST

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Ah then you cant use removal of them as a valid reason to withold rent, however the 8 week rule still stands. You can use this to force her hand regarding the airbnb a court would also be likely to look sympathetically on your situation given the worsening anxiety caused by this ‘venture’ of hers.

Theweepywillow · 15/08/2024 14:22

Pineapplewaves · 15/08/2024 14:19

Have you spoken to the other two tenants about the removal of the communal area? What do they think? Perhaps the three of you together need to approach the LL about a rent reduction but

Did your LL not notifying you about their decision to turn the communal area into another room? Did neither you or the other tenants notice when the room was being decorated and furnished to accommodate the extra person? The room must have been out of bounds for a while before person 3 moved in? Or was it all done in secrecy during the night? I think your time to complain about this has passed.....

No you can't withhold your rent, it sounds like you are having trouble paying it and are looking for an excuse to not pay altogether. Citizens Advice can help of you with debt and housing issues. It sounds like your LL may already have some grounds to consider eviction if you have had issues not paying rent recently, don't provoke them by arguing over the living room if you want to stay.

At least read the thread!

Cosyblankets · 15/08/2024 14:20

CaptainBolt · 15/08/2024 13:46

Maybe the landlord could get a job to pay his/her own bills.

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So the landlord should pay the electricity and gas and water and council tax and tv licence on a property they don't live in? Is that what you mean?

Pineapplewaves · 15/08/2024 14:19

Have you spoken to the other two tenants about the removal of the communal area? What do they think? Perhaps the three of you together need to approach the LL about a rent reduction but

Did your LL not notifying you about their decision to turn the communal area into another room? Did neither you or the other tenants notice when the room was being decorated and furnished to accommodate the extra person? The room must have been out of bounds for a while before person 3 moved in? Or was it all done in secrecy during the night? I think your time to complain about this has passed.....

No you can't withhold your rent, it sounds like you are having trouble paying it and are looking for an excuse to not pay altogether. Citizens Advice can help of you with debt and housing issues. It sounds like your LL may already have some grounds to consider eviction if you have had issues not paying rent recently, don't provoke them by arguing over the living room if you want to stay.

BobandRobertaSmith · 15/08/2024 14:19

You are both being unreasonable. You need to set up a standing order and pay on time. If you are having financial difficulties because you aren’t working due to your health (are you on sick leave?) you need to look into your entitlement to benefits.

If your contract says that you have shared use of the sitting room, your landlord can’t take that away. That said, expect that she will give notice if you don’t agree to it. She will definitely (and be within her rights) evict you if you withhold rent. She also can’t air b n b full time in London.

Does she have an HMO license? Gas/electricity safety certificate, EPC etc.

Start paying rent on time, get a good landlord reference, find a better landlord.

OlderGlaswegianLivingInDevon · 15/08/2024 14:18

You also need to clarify if the other people living in the house are tenants in an HMO or if they are there through AirB&B as there is a huge difference.

Iseeiseeisee · 15/08/2024 14:18

littledragon99 · 15/08/2024 13:58

I have ADHD and often need to be reminded

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Then you should welcome your landlord’s initiative to contact your employer so your rent is paid to them directly and you won’t need to remember nor have anyone to remind you? No?

do you think lounge is let out now so cover for your late/ unpredictable or missing payments from your room?

Theweepywillow · 15/08/2024 14:17

littledragon99 · 15/08/2024 14:16

Unfortunately no mention made of communal spaces in the AST

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Then she can rent it out. If you don’t like it, give notice and leave. You can’t just not pay.

and I’m sorry having adhd is no excuse for not paying your rent on time. And her renting out the living room is no excuse for you just not paying.

she needs to evict you; I would. However as said. No 9ne is going to rent to you ever again when she does.

CasaBianca · 15/08/2024 14:17

littledragon99 · 15/08/2024 13:36

She said since "I have never paid my rent on time" she needs the guarenteed airbnb income from airbnb'ing out the lounge, but this is just making my anxiety levels through the roof

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Are you for real? What do you think her anxiety level is when you decide to not pay your rent? You sound very self-centred.
What do you think should happen? You put her in financial difficulty and she shouldn’t donanything about it? You object to her airbnb-ing the living room while conveniently ignoring the fact that she is only doing it to make up the money you owe her.

friendlycat · 15/08/2024 14:17

You can’t just not pay rent and you need to pay your rent on time. If you don’t like the current arrangement you need to find somewhere else to live.

viques · 15/08/2024 14:16

It is a HMO if you and the other tenants are unrelated, share facilities and the landlord does not live there.

Is it registered with the local authority as a HMO, most London local authorities insist on HMOs being registered. If so it should be part of the licence about how many people can live there.

betterangels · 15/08/2024 14:16

littledragon99 · 15/08/2024 13:58

I have ADHD and often need to be reminded

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So, no. Isn't that what standing orders are for? You're giving them a valid reason to evict you. Can't really blame the LL.

Original poster

littledragon99 · 15/08/2024 14:16

GoodLordyTheExcusesWeMakeForThem · 15/08/2024 14:09

You have an ast and live in a shared home with ise of communal living spaces. First things first, do NOT withhold rent and if you do choose to make sure you NEVER owe more than 8 weeks rent. As ling as you keep it below 8 weeks a section 8 eviction notice cant be served. A section 21 will never be served and valid if your tenancy deposit wasnt protected and the prescribed information supplied to you. The inly way this is possible is if the entire deposit is returned to you before a section 21 is served. Now removal of the communal space IS a valid reason to withold part of the rent for the periods the space isnt available to you. As long as the communal spaces are listed in your ast. If, as it sounds, your LL is ‘renting’ this space out to people on airbnb as a private space and therefore depriving you and the other tenants of the use of it, that is interfering with your ability to ise your home. Especially if this is to people you have no idea who they are etc. it is completely unreasonable for your LL to make this change. Full bloody stop. Ad you have an ast and your deposit wasnt protected nor was the prescribed information served you can vlaim via for N1 for the court to impose a ‘fine’ of up to 3 times the deposit amount for each infraction. This would be, for example on a 6 month initial contract that then went periodic and lasted another 18 months with an initial deposit of £1000….. up to £3000 for the deposit not being protected, £3000 for the prescribed information nor having been served and this is then repeated every 6 months (or possibly every month if the ‘period’ of rent payment is monthly etc) so this would mean a court claim of £8000 plus initial deposit returned in full at a minimum and up to £114,000 plus initial deposit back if the court awarded the maximum £3000 for each infraction and determined the ‘period’ to be monthly. This would probably force your LL to have to sell the home to pay you. The courts look poorly upon LL’s who claim ignorance. Oh and the reason I know this? I was the tenant who discovered my LL hadn’t protected my deposit and didn’t intend to return it when she asked me to leave so she could sell. I refused and she served a section 21. I withheld rent to the value of my initial deposit (8 weeks rent) she withdrew the section 21 (that she didn’t realise was invalid, I hadn’t told her) and served a section 8 but immediately before court I paid the equivalent of 1 weeks rent and the section 8 failed. She then reserved the section 21 still none the wiser but now realising she would never get the rent arrears by doing so. I waited until court, attended, she did not. I presented the evidence showing the section 21 was invalid and an N1 claim for judge to decide between the minimum of £11,000 and the maximum of £118,000. He awarded me the minimum of £11,000 plus my deposit back in full so that she could re serve the section 21 as soon as the payment was made. She couldn’t afford to pay it therefore no valid section 21 and I didn’t lose my home. I chose to leave not long after but you can bet your bottom dollar I had the high court bailiffs at her door u til I got my £11,000 paid in full. Moral of the story? Don’t become a LL if you have no idea what the legislation for ast’s is. Oh and don’t think that just because you own the house you have a right to turf out legitimate tenants from their home! Good luck op 🤞

Unfortunately no mention made of communal spaces in the AST

OP posts:

Theweepywillow · 15/08/2024 14:15

Starlight1979 · 15/08/2024 14:11

I completely agree, the landlord shouldn't have to pay the OP's bills and the OP shouldn't have to pay the landlord's mortgage or bills!

@CaptainBolt - You cannot be serious. So OP should be able to live in a property that doesn't belong to her free of charge?

Agree, ive seen some ridiculous things written on this forum but that may win the internet today.

Cosyblankets · 15/08/2024 14:15

littledragon99 · 15/08/2024 13:58

I have ADHD and often need to be reminded

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Does this prevent you from setting up a direct debit?
Do you need to be reminded to go to work?
How do you pay your phone contract or any other subscriptions? If you didn't pay them then your phone wouldn't work. What's the difference?
Sorry but you've lost all credibility with that comment.
Check your agreement and if it doesn't explicitly say you have use of the living room then you don't have a case.

MissingMoominMamma · 15/08/2024 14:14

littledragon99 · 15/08/2024 13:36

She said since "I have never paid my rent on time" she needs the guarenteed airbnb income from airbnb'ing out the lounge, but this is just making my anxiety levels through the roof

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She has bills to pay too. Do you have the money you’ve withheld?

Pay her what you can, then work out a repayment plan for the rest of what you owe.

drowninginsick · 15/08/2024 14:13

Bloody hell i have adhd bit you need to change your attitude

"I have ADHD and often need to be reminded"

So set a reminder on your phone and use a reminder app. That's how I manage. Never paying your rent on time is crap!

Separately I would ask for a reduction given you no longer have an amenity but she's hardly
Likely to feel like saying yes is she !