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Original poster

What was strange about the picture of her family, my Dd drew for the Dr

59 replies

Notthegoldenhourthebluehour · 14/08/2024 22:31

Currently having issues with Dd, 6, suspected Pans/pandas, trying to establish if recent changes in behaviour could be down to having been ill or a trigger somehow resulting in psychological problems. Amongst many other things, the Dr asked Dd to draw a picture of our family. She did a normal, pretty average picture really. She drew me first, then her in the middle and Dh at the other side and our dog at the front sat down.
The Dr told me it was good she’d drawn herself in the middle but that he wanted to send a screenshot of her picture to a colleague
What can this mean? Any child psychologists here etc

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Original poster
Notthegoldenhourthebluehour · 15/08/2024 14:31

@MindTheAbyss Glad he’s doing better 🙏Did he have intrusive thoughts?
Yes, the rage when it comes is horrific.
To me it doesn’t make sense as even this morning she felt red hot on her body (no fever) and saying she felt sick, tired etc, so it seems like something is still there

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Original poster
Notthegoldenhourthebluehour · 15/08/2024 14:29

@KnittingKnewbie No he said that to me not to Dd

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MindTheAbyss · 15/08/2024 14:13

@Notthegoldenhourthebluehour the rage was horrible, terrifying at times, and mostly directed at me. Other behaviours looked like severe ADHD, and then there were “clean rules” and only walking on certain bits of the floor at certain times of the day, and on… Plus regular fevers, stomach aches, exhaustion and insomnia.

Things are much better at 2.5 years, but we have to manage activities to a strict limit every day. The Long Covid Kids charity is incredible supportive - you could dip into the Facebook group and see if you feel any of it sounds like your daughter.

KnittingKnewbie · 15/08/2024 13:06

Notthegoldenhourthebluehour · 14/08/2024 22:44

@Rustytoasty Thank you, but him mentioning it was good Dd drew herself in the middle, why is it? Just curious what a picture could show as we’re desperate to get to the bottom of things and help her
He also seemed interested that she drew me first and seemed positive about it, he asked a fair bit about our family situation

He could have been just being encouraging "ooh well done you drew yourself in the middle. Oh I like how you used two different colours for your jumper. Oh look, what a lovely sunny day it is in your picture "

Could be just meaningless praise of essentially nothing to make your child feel proud

BrownBirdWelcomesWhiteWave · 15/08/2024 11:25

RandomMess · 14/08/2024 23:01

@BrownBirdWelcomesWhiteWave but then you've posted something I don't think is helpful about the condition.

Not included what causes it or how it often presents (ticks, ND attributed behaviours that have come on suddenly).

But it gives an idea of what the condition is - its not meant to be an in depth explanation. Posters are interested, but only at a top level. It is easy to go further and investigate more if you want to, but from clicking on a thread a short explanation is fine (as per the 12 people who clicked 'thanks' would probably agree? )

Original poster
Notthegoldenhourthebluehour · 15/08/2024 10:39

@DameKatyDenisesClagnuts Not in the U.K., do you think it’s ok for kids? I did ask him about natural things to help her calm down if in an emergency rage etc and I asked him about homeopathy

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Original poster
Notthegoldenhourthebluehour · 15/08/2024 10:37

@BallerinaFall She drew our dog last as forgot about her 🙈so our dog was added at the end. She drew me and her and then started to show it to him and I think he asked if she had more people in the family and I said what about daddy, but I think she was in the process of putting him in

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BallerinaFall · 15/08/2024 10:30

I wonder if it's because like you sad Dad was last, she drew you, her and the dog, then Dad it looks like the dog is keeping a distance between her and the Dad. When you say had to be asked to draw dad do you mean she had finished the picture or did he ask her to draw you, then draw her, etx

DameKatyDenisesClagnuts · 15/08/2024 10:26

Hi OP,
Are you in the UK? I've not heard of valerian being prescribed here.

Original poster
Notthegoldenhourthebluehour · 15/08/2024 09:49

@PeterCapaldiBae So sorry you had to go through that. Yes I’ve wondered about Dd and possible autism or adhd in the past, we also have neurodivergence in both sides of our family. I think the difference may be how suddenly it came on? As in, did you present these behaviours when younger or it all started suddenly in your early teens? I’m not 100% sure though, but have been researching it and trying to get my head around it all for a couple of months now

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Original poster
Notthegoldenhourthebluehour · 15/08/2024 09:46

@MindTheAbyss What is LDN and which supplements were given for inflammation? I did ask about this and sort of had to suggest myself to take anti histamines, he did say they can sometimes make a child’s behaviour worse though 😳unsure what to do really

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Original poster
Notthegoldenhourthebluehour · 15/08/2024 09:44

@MindTheAbyss So sorry. Yes we talked about covid as we’ve likely had it twice in the last year, she still gets hot to the touch, some nausea and days when she says she’s tired. The Dr did say symptoms wouldn’t usually manifest in the ocd & rage, did your child have this, are they ok now?

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Original poster
Notthegoldenhourthebluehour · 15/08/2024 09:42

@Unexpectedlysinglemum Thats interesting, hands seem all around the same size, she did tell him hers was a closed fist, which he asked her about, but then didn’t seem concerned with. She’s closer to me on the pic and when asked to draw her daddy, she said he’s small, which I laughed at as he’s the tallest. The dr said ‘You’re father is the smallest in the family?’ and she said to fit on the page, but looking at the paper, there looks like there is plenty of room. If one was drawn/thought to be smaller, this would imply?

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BrownBirdWelcomesWhiteWave · 15/08/2024 08:46

netherworld · 14/08/2024 23:26

The previous poster included a link to save people having to Google :-)

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Still had to leave the thread to read it though?

Unexpectedlysinglemum · 15/08/2024 06:53

They do look at positioning and also the size of the adults, eg was one parent huge and the other tiny, was one parent closer than the other? Did she have hands or tiny hands if so she feels powerless did one parent have big hands if so they're in control

RhiWrites · 15/08/2024 06:48

Wanttobefree2 · 14/08/2024 23:30

Everyone person on the thread will be googling the same 😂

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Which is why @PolaroidPrincess kindly created a link to the definition.

MindTheAbyss · 15/08/2024 02:17

Great your doctor is PANS/PANDAS aware. Our then-6-yo suddenly developed massive behavioural changes after a second Covid infection, as part of a wider LC diagnosis. Reading age and fine motor skills regression, and memory issues followed.

We’ve very much focused on rest (reduced school timetable for the last 2.5 years), improving sleep and gut health, and supplements to reduce inflammation. A specialist prescribed low-dose naltrexone (LDN) at the start of this year and, within weeks, we started to see our kiddo return to their usual self.

I hope you find help very soon. There are practitioners out there who are excellent at this stuff. Good luck xx

PeterCapaldiBae · 15/08/2024 00:52

I was diagnosed with PANDAs when I was an early teen.

I'm 28 now. I still have all the symptoms. Still have TICs, anxiety, and other behaviours that would suggest some form of ND, either autism, ADHD or both.

I wonder now whether I did have PANDAs and this has caused me to have these life long symptoms or whether I was misdiagnosed.

It wasn't very know about when I was diagnosed and seems it still isn't today.

Sorry - not related to your DDs picture but I thought it was interesting. My six year old has also recently been diagnosed with autism. He has very bad anxiety too. The two of us are very very similar. The only difference is I have TICs and he doesn't.

Nadeed · 15/08/2024 00:26

Osteopaths are not recommended for infections.
www.nhs.uk/conditions/osteopathy/safety/

aliasname · 15/08/2024 00:06

Sorry can’t I help with the rest of it, but noticed your mention of Valerian.

often used for sleep problems, but please be aware it has a rare side effect of causing nightmares. Most people are fine, but something to be aware of.

haveagoharry · 14/08/2024 23:48

Notthegoldenhourthebluehour · 14/08/2024 23:24

@haveagoharry It seems to be the course taken for this

It will be, sadly and unjustly; Western medicine is not well (read: at all) educated in dealing with returning the human body to homeostasis. The best thing you can do is your own independent research so that you can make more informed decisions on your daughter's behalf, because unfortunately going purely off of what you've been told by a traditional medicine practitioner will likely not leave you fully informed (and I say that as a HCP myself).

Original poster
Notthegoldenhourthebluehour · 14/08/2024 23:37

@Dreamingofthishouse Wow, you were very successful then, that’s great 🙏 yes, he has prescribed probiotics too and we go to a play therapist, although i’m not sure how much that’s helping to be honest
How was the osteopath able to help? What illness did your child have?
My Dd has anger/rage and ocd/intrusive thoughts, had separation anxiety very strongly at first (previously very confident & independent) constantly feels she needs a wee (no urine infections etc. She was ill back in March /April with vomiting and sleeping for days, but ok afterwards and then in June, she started to have nausea, hot all over (no real fever) but felt hot to the touch (still has that now on and off and nausea and tiredness) and tummy ache, she was also constipated -not sure if a connection. She started to not want to go to school, then a few weeks later it all changed-separation anxiety, the rage, awful thoughts and ocd, issues with clothes not feeling comfortable, not wanting to go out much-playgrounds, walk the dog

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Wanttobefree2 · 14/08/2024 23:30

PolaroidPrincess · 14/08/2024 22:34

Yes you could google Wink

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Everyone person on the thread will be googling the same 😂

Dreamingofthishouse · 14/08/2024 23:28

Oh and sessions with a oesteopath !