Why do so many posters hate mothers/children

Bingo!
I guess I might be too late. But there is always at least one. ‘Why are women without children here. How can you discuss gardening, cats, politics, cooking, podcast, tv programmes etc without being a mother? ‘

Which isn't relevant to an opinion about what the level of maternity pay should be.

What does that ‘entitlement’ look like though, having children is a very political experience IMO and Mothers in particular do have to really fight for rights and fair treatment, to often on here recently this is referred to as ‘entitlement’.

The UK’s birth rate over the last decade has fallen by 20.5%, which is the largest drop of any of the countries in the G7 and you want to further discourage tax payers and workers of the future by degrading women’s maternity rights and I quote, “I don’t think the employer should have to keep the job open past 6 months post birth”, really? Are women that are Mothers second class citizens now? By dismissing the work of giving birth to a raising a child, women are essentially being exploited by society, the values of a society really are demonstrated by how it treats Mothers and children! The reality is the UK is way behind Europe when it comes to maternity pay, with some Scandinavian countries in particular standing out with their generous maternity leave packages. Norway gives mums 49 weeks at full pay, or 59 weeks at 80%. Sweden for example offers 480 days at home with 80% of pay covered and in Denmark, maternity leave benefits cover a 52 week period, with additional provisions for sharing paid leave between partners.

Why would you want to go backwards with women’s rights?

@Putting @ilovesooty obviously, but as it is predominantly a parenting forum, child free by choice (CFBC?) people who come on to complain that people talk about parenting, and make digs about parents (when they’ve never experienced being a parent, by choice), have got a fucking nerve.

Yes @WickieRoy That's an example of name calling I remember. Toxic.

I haven’t seen this. Disagreement doesn’t equal hate.

I was thinking in particular of a very nasty thread on the childfree board that I was on under another username, advocating that those without DC should be allowed a sabbatical as they haven't taken maternity leave. Aside from the fact that the idea is ridiculous and anti-feminist (maternity leave isn't a holiday, and what about sick leave or other carers leave, why just mat leave?), the language used and the way new mothers were spoken about was awful.

Since that thread I have noticed similar attitudes on many other threads. I agree that some of the harshest views can be the "I coped fine in my day so you shouldn't get anything more than I did" crowd, but there's a also a hardcore minority of posters who seem to resent mothers (and new mothers in particular) getting anything. I've also seen some awful posts about young children ("Why do you think your crotch goblins should be allowed disturb my life" type stuff).

Like I say, I understand why the board was created and thought it was a great idea but unfortunately I don't think it's panned out as intended.

ETA - I was here years before even thinking of DC, so it's not that I think those without children shouldn't be on MN, but I just think that board has emboldened a nasty vibe from some.

Having said that, I do sometimes feel uncomfortable at the level of child-bashing there is on some of the dog / cat threads. But it’s generally challenged, which is good.

@ttcat37 I'm sure my child free by choice status impacts my ability to chat about politics, Masterchef, cats etc. I hadn't been aware of that previously.

Thsre are a lot of conversations on Mumsnet that have nothing to do with parenting, though. I’m not sure conversations about Mr Hissy or your favourite Dominos pizza really depend on someone’s parenting status!

I think a lot of people find it when doing a Google search for something.

MNHQ have made it clear that everyone is welcome, anyway.

However, I have noticed some really awful attitudes to maternity leave in particular since the childfree board was created. I was an advocate for that board before it was set up but unfortunately I don't think it's been a positive thing for MN as a whole.

Since the board was created, I've seen a lot of people try to suggest that it has attracted people who want to spread hatred of mothers and provision for mothers. I'm quite cynical about this because when pressed, said posters inevitably cite threads which are full of posts from parents.

Indeed, some of the harsher posts on the SMP thread are from parents who've said that they're not in favour of increasing mat leave because what's available now is much better than it was for them.

All of this goes against basic biology though, surely as a society we should be working with it, not against it?

It seems mad to me that after having spent 9 months growing a human, you think women only need 6 months to recover from pregnancy and childbirth, whilst still being the baby’s primary care giver and source of nutrition.

As someone in the very top tax paying bracket, better maternity benefits is something I would wholeheartedly support over other things.

You're right, it’s a completely spurious question as to why anybody without kids would go to a parenting website called MUMSnet and then launch a tirade about awful people are about the fact you ‘child free’ (the implication in ‘child free’ is that you chose not to have children, and the people being awful is entirely hypothetical)
Perhaps all the vegetarians should converge on a Butchery forum and then complain that people talk about eating meat all the time

Occasionally I've seen children referred to in derogatory terms, called names or posters using quite toxic language. I suppose social media does facilitate this kind of vomiting out of frustrations, but I think it's quite rare on MN regarding children. Simple differences of opinion, politely expressed, are probably what most come here for anyway, so as to hear other points of view and discuss.

Sorry, haven't RTFT.

There has always been an element that doesn't support mothers - those who struggle with babies are often told they're weak or asked what they thought they signed up for, for example. Often by the "I had five children under three and loved every minute, how could you possibly be struggling with your single newborn who wakes every hour" crowd.

However, I have noticed some really awful attitudes to maternity leave in particular since the childfree board was created. I was an advocate for that board before it was set up but unfortunately I don't think it's been a positive thing for MN as a whole.

I do wonder if these posts are genuine. Is anybody really that lacking in imagination?

@RomeoRivers it's largely irrelevant that the man is involved in the choice to have a baby, since he's not the one wanting a year off work, paid for by the employer. But I have said that men should be taking the second 6 months off, in order to even up fairness between the sexes when it comes to employer risk in hiring people who are likely to have children.

Again though, it's not the employer or the state's job to facilitate easy breastfeeding. If a woman wants to stay home past 6 months it's not unreasonable to expect her and the child's father to finance it.
I don't think the employer should have to keep the job open past 6 months post birth either tbh - employers hire people to go to work , their personal life choices are their own business and not the employers responsibility.

FFS. The arrogance of this attitude that only parents of young children are “actively” parenting is breathtaking. Hopefully when your kids are older you’ll
gain some insight and look back and cringe. I can assure you that supporting my older teens and young adults, some neurodiverse, as they go to uni and start figuring out where to go from there is some of the hardest parenting I’ve done.

And WTF does questioning my (and others like me, and child free people) motivation to be on this site mean?? Are you implying we’re only here to criticise you? Because that’s arrogant, self-absorbed and nasty. The whole fucking world does not revolve around “young mums” 🤮

that should read lauded as some amazing perk by people who couple that sentence with, “you don’t know how lucky you are”..

I had full pay for 9 months in the 00s so IMO there is no dramatic change and I think it being lauded as, “you don’t know how lucky you are, in my day…” are contributing to the justified demise of women’s rights, which is a huge problem in the current world we live in anyway!

Yes but the advertisement and competitions, reviews does fall heavily on the parent side at least. I have been on here a very long time and only initially did so as I had a pregnancy issue. People have always disagreed on here but it was mostly a parental website so it was a bit of a safe space if you had DC and mostly women. Things change and evolve of course but I think it is a sad time indeed when a place named MN has people actively wanting a hard fought for woman’s right - maternity leave to be degraded!

in the wider world women’s rights appear to be going backwards and the knocking of Mums specifically is a manifestation of that IMO.

I’m full aware of the infertility board thanks, as I couldn’t conceive easily. Hence my post referring to ‘child free’ as a term used as having no children by choice.

I think that people don’t realise how good maternity benefits are in the U.K. The posters talking about ‘in my day’? That’s still the way of things in the US.

We have statutory maternity pay (and most employers offer additional benefits on top of that) and the option to take up to 12 months leave. The OP on the other thread was complaining about 75% of her usual wage for 6 months and then statutory maternity pay.