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to think Rachel 'Raygun' gun has broken the phrase 'Oh for the confidence of a mediocre man'?

258 replies

Raygunstun · 14/08/2024 13:25

( Ok, yes I know I am late to the party on this one).

I'm talking about the Australian women's entry into the breakdancing at the Olympics.

She went out there with absolute confidence, and complete lack of self awareness, and did really terrible breakdancing. It wasn't even really breakdancing. It was like some sort of interpretative dance. Her moves were clunky and slow. they did not flow, the connections between moves were awkward. She was like a competitor in a very, very local competition. And she appeared to have no awareness of this. I know there is a lot of creativity and expression in breaking, but it surely has to be combined with technical skill.

She also appears to have no awareness that the Olympics is about showcasing outstanding physical prowess and technical expertise. Both of which she clearly lacked.

In a way, I admire her confidence, but I don't admire her lack of awareness. I also do not believe she was the best female breaker in Australia.

Part of me feels a bit sorry for her as the break dancing world is clearly her world, but I can't help feeling she got so lost in the theory of the ' expressive' side of breaking she kinda lost sight of the technical skill side. A bit like Rachel Dolezol got so lost in the theory of race being a social construct that she lost sight of the fact you actually need to be black to be black.

OP posts:
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SnoopySnoopDoggIsTheBest · 15/08/2024 19:41

Oh wait ... this might explain it all!

It was ELAINE all along!

...

to think Rachel 'Raygun' gun has broken the phrase 'Oh for the confidence of a mediocre man'?
BehindTheSequinsandStilettos · 15/08/2024 19:38

She had no power moves. She doesn't get off the ground much in general.
I can only think she hoped to pick up points for originality, knowing she'd score less in the other four?
Deliberately doing it for attention is a possibility but her insta response seems genuine enough that she hoped to bring joy. It did remind me of the Praise You video, which is why I found Fatboy Slim's post amusing upthread. Alternatively, a Lars von Trier's The idiots reimagining.
However...if you look at the scoring % in her battle rounds

Versus Nicka who took silver, although she lost 0-2 she did pick up +2.2% from Frost and +1% from Jess for...originality.
Versus Syssy, who also beat her 2-0, she did pick up +1.6% from Frost again.
Versus Logistx, who also beat her 2-0, she did pick up +1% from Jess again for originality and +0.8% from Virus. They also gave her +0.2% for originality in the second round. Finally, she picked up +0.8% for vocabulary from Kazuhiro.
Official Reports Breaking (olympics.com) judges' analysis

TLDR: 4/9 judges awarded her some marks for originality.
So her strategy/tactic worked in part.

TheKeatingFive · 15/08/2024 18:44

Doingmybest12 · 15/08/2024 18:29

I don't know her motivation, but I felt what I saw was disrespectful. Like if you did high jump at the Olympics, you went under the bar deliberately and bounced on the crash mat for fun, or if you threw the shot put ,you sort of stood there and plopped it in front of you. What ever she did or was allowed to do was poor judgement and its a shame someone else ,with more talent wasn't supported to attend.

This is a great post.

I agree totally. For me, the Olympics mean something - it's about people pacing themselves and each other to be the best. Getting to compete is a massive honour and I would expect everyone to respect that.

It's not a place for 'prizes for everyone' or to make a point, or to be 'original' with no skill. There are other platforms if you want to do that. But not the Olympics.

Doingmybest12 · 15/08/2024 18:29

I don't know her motivation, but I felt what I saw was disrespectful. Like if you did high jump at the Olympics, you went under the bar deliberately and bounced on the crash mat for fun, or if you threw the shot put ,you sort of stood there and plopped it in front of you. What ever she did or was allowed to do was poor judgement and its a shame someone else ,with more talent wasn't supported to attend.

Raygunstun · 15/08/2024 17:57

I’ve just looked at her instagram and in her posts of battles there she is nowhere near as bad as she was at the Olympics. She’s nowhere near Olympic level, but if she had performed like that she’d just have looked like someone out of her depth rather than someone taking the piss. It was all the awkward, ugly, odd ‘original’ moves she added in to the Olympics ruined her credibility.

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Raygunstun · 15/08/2024 17:19

She’s posted on Instagram now and she says she’s found all the media on this devastating. I imagine the criticism from within the community will be hard for, and she’s received a lot.

She might be able to monetize it but I imagine that is just going to increase the ill feeling to her within the breaking community, and it does seem that community is genuinely important to her.

Who knows what was going through her head to think what she did was acceptable. She may just have next to no self awareness and huge amounts of arrogance.

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DanceMeister · 15/08/2024 17:11

I think it was a perfect storm..

  • an academic who may lack self awareness.

It's not just cultural studies, the University sector is pretty bloated with people from all backgrounds who come across as a bit odd in their mannerisms and judgement (very high rates of ND).

  • Some ambition in wanting to build a profile, make money from followers. I don't think there necessarily was any huge conspiracy... She and her husband don't come across as super talented but they have been investing in attending lots of events.

If the break dancing community isn't that big, then just turning up regularly probably makes her stand out. Maybe an amount of nepotism if its that small a community. I doubt there's massive immediate financial rewards unless you self-promote hugely (which isn't necessarily easy money). But many people who aren't massively talented do the whole motivational speaker/life coaching thing.

  • Like PPs say, choice of wrong outfit and wrong set up. The tight uniform looked ridiculous and with her build and height made her look gawkier.
  • I don't really get break dancing, but I agree most of the other performances weren't that gripping. I think the dress sense and bad routine amplified the routine.
  • She'll probably make lots of money now from interviews, which is fair enough given the worldwide media drubbing. I agree it doesn't seem fair or proportional, but it makes clicks and views.
Raygunstun · 15/08/2024 17:05

Iwasafool · 15/08/2024 16:02

Please don't pretend she hasn't been criticised for being white.

She’s not being criticized for being white -the other white competitors who respected the genre have not received any criticism - how do you square that with your belief that she’s criticized for being white?

I was about to explain it all to you again but it’s all there in the thread already. The article linked to about on page 8 s a good explanation, as is the quote @Heber posted. You either have the motivation and cognition to understand the arguments ( even if you disagree with them) or you don’t.

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Ponoka7 · 15/08/2024 16:30

ilovesushi · 15/08/2024 10:17

Where did you all watch the rest of the competition? I only found very short clips on the BBC.

There's a lot on YouTube.

Apparently she was chosen during short dance offs. She's on YouTube during a dance off and the routine is better than what she took to the Olympics. One of the other girls was still better though. Like Trump, you think that these things must be social experiments, but they turn out to be real.

Iwasafool · 15/08/2024 16:21

Totallymessed · 15/08/2024 16:19

I thought it was fantastic, the highlight of the games for me. The kangaroo in particular was one of the greatest Olympic moments 😂. How often do sports make people laugh?

Surely I can't be the only person old enough to remember Eddie the Eagle?

The thing I can't stand is when they cry, I'm not sure if its worse if they cry when they win or when they lose. I'd definitely rather have a laugh.

Totallymessed · 15/08/2024 16:19

I thought it was fantastic, the highlight of the games for me. The kangaroo in particular was one of the greatest Olympic moments 😂. How often do sports make people laugh?

Surely I can't be the only person old enough to remember Eddie the Eagle?

Iwasafool · 15/08/2024 16:02

Raygunstun · 15/08/2024 14:30

People have expressed the reasons why quite clearly and linked to articles that explain it well. If you disagree, then disagree, that’s fine. But please don’t pretend this hasn’t all been explained on the thread.

Please don't pretend she hasn't been criticised for being white.

floatingislands · 15/08/2024 14:45

Even in the qualifier clip, where she was better than at the Olympics, she's got no rhythm or coordination. It's like a drunk aunt at a party decided to spin around on the carpet for a lark.

Raygunstun · 15/08/2024 14:30

Iwasafool · 15/08/2024 10:30

Well my reading is the fact she is white and middle class has been thrown in and is a criticism. If the issue is she isn't good then why mention colour, why mention men developing this dance in the US? It is either something people are saying is relevant or it isn't relevant at all. I don't think her class, education, colour or sex are relevant at all so I don't know why that is being brought up. It just muddies the discussion, do people think she was being creative or do people think she was just useless. I can't see why anything else comes into it.

If you don't think it is being brought up why do you think the origins of the foxtrot are being discussed?

People have expressed the reasons why quite clearly and linked to articles that explain it well. If you disagree, then disagree, that’s fine. But please don’t pretend this hasn’t all been explained on the thread.

OP posts:
Heber · 15/08/2024 12:59

Raygunstun · 15/08/2024 07:53

What comments? I thought the one @Heber posted was from someone else about Ray gun and her H?

Yes - it was a comment from an individual on the H's IG account.

BehindTheSequinsandStilettos · 15/08/2024 12:13

Do people consider it racist and disrespectful when a celebrity bungles it on Strictly? And who gets to say how bad it must be to be disrespectful - somebody might be trying really hard but muck it up, is that disrespectful?
Ooh, good one. I didn't know foxtrot's origins but no, Jacqui Smith/Susannah Constantine weren't torn down as racists for doing average slow foxes.
Many know the links between Charleston and Josephine Baker and I do recall Natalie being compared to JB favourably. White contestants didn't have that comparison when flappers. The Charleston is a hard one to mess up though.
Street-commercial is a better comparison for levels of cringe.
I think Jamie Laing got a pass for doing street for his sheer enthusiasm/attack.
It was decidedly less cringe than Joe trying to 'jump'.
Chris Ramsay/Mel Giedroyc were also "knowing" about doing PJ+Duncan/Vanilla ice = middling white street dancing with affection.
So yes, street commercial - there is a sense that the white contestants are a bit pants. They aren't deliberately mocking it/making a parody. They know it's cringe but get stuck in self-deprecatingly.
Raygun has been lauded by some by "having a crack" - this would be fine if she was competing as amateur rather than as Australia's best.
I can't find the source - it's been taken down I assume for inaccuracy - but the article I referred to mentioning five known judges (turns out most weren't in the judging panel) also mentioned having 100 competitors. If they only had 15/37 (?) that's half the turnout you might have hoped for. Restricting it to Sydney clique/inner sanctum, without getting word out there/levelling up should be called out, if that's what happened.
Can we only let excellent, proven dancers even attempt 'black' dances so we can be sure they will dance it well?
Jowita got applauded for embracing afrobeats/was validated by Motsi.
Bill Bailey's hip hop style/ode to Janet was beloved because he took it seriously and was pretty fly for a white guy Wink
We already know the middle aged women on Glitterball attempting Latin badly always get likened to drunk aunties at weddings and the men who can't move their hips or attempt it poorly are deemed to be Dad dancers.
The public do usually get behind an underdog, whether it's on telly or at the Olympics...but Raygun was, well I don't know what she was doing. If you go onto Facebook, you can see Logistx thinking wtf.
Video | Facebook
One man's chutzpah is another's delulu.

Sok mindent láttunk az olimpián, de az biztos, hogy Rachael Gunn (Raygun) azóta már világhírű breaktáncos produkciójára egy ideig emlékezni fogunk még. | Sok mindent láttunk az olimpián, de az biztos, hogy Rachael Gunn (Raygun) azóta már világhírű brea...

https://www.facebook.com/watch?ref=search&v=3825148737743828&external_log_id=13646f13-a1ca-45b6-86ed-0ee58388eaea&q=raygun

Caerulea · 15/08/2024 11:57

@BehindTheSequinsandStilettos I don't think that's the norm, though. Certainly not in any I've seen. What a dick of a man

Iwasafool · 15/08/2024 11:31

BehindTheSequinsandStilettos · 15/08/2024 11:12

I don't approve but psyching out your partner is standard. The aussie b-boy J-attack (Jeff Dunne) who's only 16, was teased by Dany Dann about the size of his cock. "He pulled a move where he mimicked pulling Dunne's pants down then walked away pointing at Dunne's groin and laughing. He then held up his finger and thumb, insinuating that he was lacking below the belt."

Edited

That is a horrible thing to do to a 16 year old. Not the sort of behaviour we'd accept from kids so no idea why a grown man would do that.

Iwasafool · 15/08/2024 11:28

AlisonDonut · 15/08/2024 11:13

Who was in this committee?

No idea but presumably there is some committee for Olympic entries in Australia.

AlisonDonut · 15/08/2024 11:13

Iwasafool · 15/08/2024 10:32

Well the committee selected her, don't know why a mainly british site should be judging how Australia has chosen to run their Olympic entrants.

Who was in this committee?

BehindTheSequinsandStilettos · 15/08/2024 11:12

Caerulea · 15/08/2024 09:53

I'd forgotten about the yawning thing. I'm no expert but have watched a fair bit of breakdancing & have never seen that. More often, if the opponent does something particularly impressive it gets acknowledged positively.

She behaved like it was a fucking panto.

I don't approve but psyching out your partner is standard. The aussie b-boy J-attack (Jeff Dunne) who's only 16, was teased by Dany Dann about the size of his cock. "He pulled a move where he mimicked pulling Dunne's pants down then walked away pointing at Dunne's groin and laughing. He then held up his finger and thumb, insinuating that he was lacking below the belt."

Iwasafool · 15/08/2024 10:32

Raygunstun · 15/08/2024 09:19

This is daft. Breaking competitions are a thing that existed well before the Olympics so it’s well known what standard the top performers are at. Even the early days of breaking street battles, everyone would have been able to see she was well below the top standard back then.

In an age of global digital communicatio. and media, everyone who knows anything at all about break dancing knows what a good standard looks like and that she was not it.

Well the committee selected her, don't know why a mainly british site should be judging how Australia has chosen to run their Olympic entrants.

Iwasafool · 15/08/2024 10:30

Raygunstun · 15/08/2024 08:22

No one is saying this are they? If they are it’s very few people. There were plenty of competitors in breaking who were from non African American ethnicities, the male Australian entry was white, and no one had a problem with any of them. Because they actually respected the genre and did it well.

Ray gun has got flak mainly for being really not very good at break dancing and appearing to have no insight into this.
Some have also seen white arrogance in her apparently trying to reshape breaking into what she thinks it should be.

Thats not saying white people should not do breaking. Just that they shouldn’t hop along ( literally) on a world stage and seek to change it into something unrecognizable as breakdancing.

Well my reading is the fact she is white and middle class has been thrown in and is a criticism. If the issue is she isn't good then why mention colour, why mention men developing this dance in the US? It is either something people are saying is relevant or it isn't relevant at all. I don't think her class, education, colour or sex are relevant at all so I don't know why that is being brought up. It just muddies the discussion, do people think she was being creative or do people think she was just useless. I can't see why anything else comes into it.

If you don't think it is being brought up why do you think the origins of the foxtrot are being discussed?

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